1
   

Tensions between Black American and immigrant Muslims

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 10:34 am
Weird.

I take the "complexity" business the same as nimh does -- just, wow, interesting that there are so many factors here, how the overall situation is complex, as an antonym of straightforward.

Straightforward (no moral judgement): An all-white all-Christian community is breached by black Muslim immigrant shopkeepers and some violence is done to the shopkeepers. Not good, very bad, but relatively straightforward.

Complex (no moral judgement): A mostly-black community includes some black Muslim immigrant shopkeepers and some violence is done to the shopkeepers by black Muslim Americans. Not good, very bad, more complex.

I completely agree with the point that (dlowan?) made about how marginalized groups tend to direct their anger at each other as well as towards The Man, but the relative complexity seems pretty inarguable to me.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 10:35 am
yitwail wrote:
Miller wrote:
Quote:
The immigrant shopkeepers also interpret Islam to justify selling alcohol.


Therein is the problem, since the Qur'an explicity forbids alcohol consumption by a Muslim. Why do only observant Black Muslims wish to obey the Qur'an?


if they observed the ban on alcohol consumption, there wouldn't be any need to vandalize liquor stores; the stores would close from lack of business.


Observant Muslims don't drink alcohol, nor do they own stores, that sell alcohol. Confused
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 11:34 am
here's the perspective from the owner of a store that was vandalized & burned down:

Quote:
Despite what the news media have been reporting, I'm not from Yemen. I'm Palestinian. I was born in the United States of America; I'm a U.S. citizen. My parents came from Palestine, where Judaism, Christianity and Islam are practiced. In the city where my family is from it is not common -- but it is not taboo -- to have liquor stores. So for those who say, "Go back to your country and sell it," it wouldn't be against the law there.


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/pacnews/a/2005/12/10/storeowner10.DTL

while prohibition of drinking is universal in Islam, sale of alcohol is not--another factor to weigh for anyone attempting to compare the orthodoxy of groups of muslims.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 11:50 am
During Ramadhan, alcohol may not be sold anywhere.
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:22 pm
for the record, the vandalism happened on 11/23, and the arson on 11/28, while Ramadan ended 11/2, so it's possible that the stores weren't selling alcohol during Ramadan, although i have no knowledge of that.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:28 pm
sozobe wrote:
Weird.

I take the "complexity" business the same as nimh does -- just, wow, interesting that there are so many factors here, how the overall situation is complex, as an antonym of straightforward.

Straightforward (no moral judgement): An all-white all-Christian community is breached by black Muslim immigrant shopkeepers and some violence is done to the shopkeepers. Not good, very bad, but relatively straightforward.

Complex (no moral judgement): A mostly-black community includes some black Muslim immigrant shopkeepers and some violence is done to the shopkeepers by black Muslim Americans. Not good, very bad, more complex.

Pretty much, exactly... <nods, shrugs>
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:38 pm
Who's marginalized here, though?

From one of the victims (Moe Saleh, owner of New York Market in Oakland)::

Quote:
I did not open a store because I had no other options. I genuinely love people and the business I am in. Many of these small mom and pop stores are making a living because of the long hours they work. If they calculated their time, some might find they make less than minimum wage.


And, before his death, Yusuf Bey owned beauty salons, bakeries, a Muslim School, a security business, an apartment complex, etc., which are now being operated by his "followers" (the ones that have managed to avoid death or the slammer).

I still don't think Bey's followers are orthodox Muslims. I think they're criminals who are trying to use religion as an excuse for their crimes. Not so complicated.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 02:15 pm
Miller wrote:
yitwail wrote:
Miller wrote:
Quote:
The immigrant shopkeepers also interpret Islam to justify selling alcohol.


Therein is the problem, since the Qur'an explicity forbids alcohol consumption by a Muslim. Why do only observant Black Muslims wish to obey the Qur'an?


if they observed the ban on alcohol consumption, there wouldn't be any need to vandalize liquor stores; the stores would close from lack of business.


Observant Muslims don't drink alcohol, nor do they own stores, that sell alcohol. Confused


just wonderin', miller (mr.? ms.? mrs.? mitch ?? Smile ), considering the above statement;

do you have an opinion regarding the muslim taliban's growing, harvesting and selling opiates to fund their operations ?

i'm not including the non-narcotic cannibanoids like hash, but the end products of the poppy such as heroin, cocaine, morphine etc.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Feb, 2006 09:57 pm
Quite a few interesting generalizations on the topic. However, although there is likely no way Nimh could have known the truth from the superficial and exploitive press reports, the Muslim enterprise(s) in question in Oakland CA are indeed criminal enterprises just as Just Wonders has described. The conflict and the public posturing has to do with a succession struggle in a criminal enterprise. The so called religious element is merely a smokescreen and a distraction.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Feb, 2006 10:47 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Quite a few interesting generalizations on the topic. However, although there is likely no way Nimh could have known the truth from the superficial and exploitive press reports, the Muslim enterprise(s) in question in Oakland CA are indeed criminal enterprises just as Just Wonders has described. The conflict and the public posturing has to do with a succession struggle in a criminal enterprise. The so called religious element is merely a smokescreen and a distraction.


What an incredible coincidence, george! That's precisely what's happening in the WH!
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 08:10 pm
Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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