lets pray for our troops

I could while away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head, I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If . . .

Beautifully said squinney...
And something that needed desperately to be said.
My hat is off to you.

Add another round of applause to SQuinney, from me.

The expressing of frustration and anger is a hallmark of failed argument - such constitutes tacit admission of defeat and consequent forfeit

I won't ask this on your new thread, MA, but why did you start it? Why do you insist on keeping the prayers for the us troops seperate from those for the iraqi people? It reminds me of the old seperate, but equal ploy.

Amen Squinney!

Of course, America has hardly "gone all the way" and is unlikely to become as psychotic as Nazi Germany any time soon. But what do you suppose God thinks of preventative war based upon deception? Or about the use of depleted uranium? Or about dropping napalm on civilians? Are Iraqi insurgents are any less certain that God is on their side than our own Evangelical Marines?

Yes, Saddam Hussein was a brutal thug, but why do so many insist on forgetting that the U.S. helped him to power in the first place? Does God see our role in all of this as lightly as we do? And how many U.S. citizens do you know, who, mired in fear, readily dismiss America's use of torture and rationalize our disregard for international law? What else might they overlook?

In 1937, Hitler said that because of Germany's belief in God and God's favoritism towards Germany, the country would prevail and prosper. "We, therefore, go our way into the future with the deepest belief in God. Would all we have achieved been possible had Providence not helped us? I know that the fruits of human labor are hard-won and transitory if they are not blessed by the Omnipotent. Work such as ours which has received the blessings of the Omnipotent can never again be undone by mere mortals,"he said.

While attempting to solidify his power, Hitler also denounced those who denounced religion -- as if he were talking about Hollywood or blue states or Noam Chomsky. "For eight months we have been conducting a fearless campaign against that Communism which is threatening our entire nation, our culture, our art, and our public morals, "Hitler said in a speech in Oct. 1933. "We have made an end of denials of the Deity and the crying down of religion."

There will be no more crying down of religion in George Bush's America, either. Though oft-repeated assertions made by the media in the immediate aftermath of the election have proven to be nothing more than myth, propagandists would have you believe that the American people have spoken: "Moral values" reign supreme.

But how can any one of us know God's desires -- especially when our enemies claim to have God on their side as well? And doesn't it seem that religious hubris -- believing that God sanctions one's own inhumane treatment of others -- always invites a fall?

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever," Thomas Jefferson said, of the price America would eventually pay for slavery. "Nations, like individuals, are punished for their transgressions," Ulysses S. Grant advised, describing karmic retribution without pointing hateful fingers at lesbians.

And long before that, the poet John Milton tried to "justify the ways of God to Man." But yet, the world, with its conflicting visions of morality, ethics and truth, still struggles to comprehend.

Perhaps Truth, for want of a better definition, is what God sees when he looks at any given situation. And perhaps it is ultimately impossible for us to know God's mind. After all, it's obvious that Hitler wasn't telling the truth when he spoke of God and country -- and by the same token, it's difficult to look at Najaf or Fallujah or Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo Bay and see God's hand in any of it.

After one of Bush's operatives promised to "export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of our great nation" Bob Woodward wrote: "The president was casting his mission and that of the country in the grand vision of God's Master Plan." And sure enough, when Woodward asked Bush if he had discussed the impending invasion of Iraq with his father, President George H.W. Bush (who could have offered sage advice), the President responded: "He is the wrong father to appeal to in terms of strength; there is a higher father that I appeal to."

But, without knowing God's mind, most of us have only History to help us judge. And the fact is, without the benefit of History, some of the "moral values" Hitler embraced sound eerily like those being peddled today.

George Bush is not Hitler. America is not Nazi Germany. But buying into religious assertions or thinking that God is on your side is not wise when it comes to matters of war -- particularly when that war is an aggressive preventative war based on false premises and assumptions.

So, aside from Jerry Falwell, who speaks with hate-filled authority, most of us do not know how God will judge us. We will have to settle for History's imperfect record.

All of this begs the question, however. Given his assertions regarding God's role in helping him decide policy ("I pray that I be as good a messenger of His will as possible" Bush told Woodward. . . "I felt so strongly that [invading Iraq] was the right thing to do") how does Bush view the more mundane, secular implications of his actions? When asked by Woodward how History would judge the war in Iraq, Bush replied: "History. We don't know. We'll all be dead."

I challenge anyone to find the moral value in that.

Oh like the old atheists are superior to Christians ploy unfolds in front of us. And a hugh lack of intolerance rears it's ugly face.

littlek,

I started a thread for the Iraqi people. I did it because msolga made me understand how important it was they were not left out in any way. I think they deserve prayer also. I feel that special prayers for them could go in that thread and special prayers for the troops in this one since this one had already been started. So, since there was an Iraqi one alrady started I just thought we could start a new one for the troops that people just might respect.

I did it because I felt it was the right thing to do. Asking everyone to stay on topic in this thread did nothing but obviously draw more off topic posts.

I have to tell you, my feelings are very hurt. It may seem silly, but they are. I was just trying to do something with some meaning for someone. I did it because I care.

Momma, I understand you did it because you care. But, really, this isn't a site designed for this type of thing. Maybe those threads would be better started at one christian.com site or another.

The bulk of us, here, are irreverant play-mongers. Trying to tells us all what to do or not to do is like trying to heard cats. It won't happen.

And, we aren't trying to hurt your feelings, we honestly find threads like this either offensive or funny.

Imagine that - whoodathunk? Mebbe a lesson there --- just mebbe?



Naaaahhhh, nemmind.

You consider the lack of intolerance ugly?

How odd, i find intolerance, a typical christian trait, to be the very soul of ugliness.

You and a few others have hurt my feeling more than you will even know because I deemed to give you some respect and now it's been betrayed in my opinion.

again you'd like to paint every Christian the same and that's the part the inflames me so much

I'm sorry you feel that way husker.

littlek,

I am sorry you feel that way. I don't understand that if you and others are so offended by this kind of thing then why do you hang out in the S&R forums? I am not trying to be smart-mouthed, littlek. I truly don't understand it.

It hurts my feelings because just for one silly little thread people can't even set aside their egos and just say, I hope the troops come home soon or anything. It's just ONE little thread for support and encouragement for our troops and it turned into its own battlefield.

How is that different, Husker, than the way in which you have just attempted to protray all atheists?


Pot, meet Kettle . . .

only that you are in the kettle of this pot "topic"

where did I every say "all"

That's crap, MOAN, we say we want the troops to come home soon all the damned time . . . and then some of your right-wing political brothers come along and accuse us of being traitors and cowards and supporters of terrorists . . . what a sick bunch . . .