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God & The Burden of Proof

 
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 09:59 pm
I gotta go it's been fun Smile I'll try and get back with nifty responses
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 10:11 pm
Chumly wrote:
Momma Angel,
It does not matter what your two friends think, by stopping homosexual marriage you deny the homosexual's who do want to marry the true love and union that a marriage brings. How can you be so cruel and heartless as to deny such an elemental need? How can you wield such power so recklessly? How can you put yourself above so many others?


You are so blinded by the offence you find in the fact that momma would vote against same sex marriage that you are dangerously close to sounding hypocritical here.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 10:13 pm
Chumly,
I was going to respond to your "Hitler" remark, but you deleted it so quickly before I could respond.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2006 10:40 pm
Chumly wrote:
Momma Angel,
It does not matter what your two friends think, by stopping homosexual marriage you deny the homosexual's who do want to marry the true love and union that a marriage brings. How can you be so cruel and heartless as to deny such an elemental need? How can you wield such power so recklessly? How can you put yourself above so many others?



It does not matter what my two friends think? Well, I think they'd beg to differ with you since this very issue concerns their lives. I am not stopping anyone from doing anything. I don't get to vote on this issue. I am just having a discussion about it. Well, that's what I thought was going on.

How can I be so cruel and heartless? I am being heartless because I am being honest about my beliefs and my feelings? I am being cruel and heartless because I have the audacity to actually exercise my legal right to freedom of speech and the right to vote? Are you serious? How can I wield such power so recklessly? What power? I don't even get to vote on this! I'm just having a discussion!

How can I put myself above so many others? What about those that would vote for this? Doesn't matter to you or them that anyone else thinks it's wrong, does it? So, who is putting themselves over whom? The only diference is I am not criticizing you or calling you cruel or heartless because of what you think.

Can't you understand? It is so black and white. I have the same right you have. Again, you show me in the Constitution of the United States where it says I MUST NOT consider my religious beliefs when deciding my vote. Show me where it says you MUST NOT toss aside your non-religious beliefs when deciding your vote. Until you can do that, we HAVE THE SAME EXACT RIGHTS.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:11 am
Mom,

Men were being honest about their beliefs and feelings and women did not have the same rights as men, was that being a true Christian?

Whites were being honest about their beliefs and feelings and Blacks did not have the same rights as whites, was that being a true Christian?

Whites were being honest about their beliefs and feelings and Native Indians did not have the same rights as whites, was that being a true Christian?

No it does not matter what you or your two friends think when it comes to homosexual's sanctity of marriage, it's none your business or your two friends. It's between the homosexuals and their god, not you and your friends.

Yes you are being heartless & cruel! You have no right deny homosexuals the right to get married under their god. You have no right to deny the love of homosexuals under their god.

You are abusing homosexuals by voting against their love and forcing them to live without their god.

How can you wield the power to destroy love so recklessly?

What is wrong with allowing two homosexuals to truly love each other in marriage under their god?

You may think we all have the same rights, but you are stealing the freedom from homosexuals to love under their god and forcing them to live with bigotry and prejudice.

The right to vote against a homosexual marriage is not a fair and loving right at all, it's a cruel, mean spirited, un-humanitarian, un-Christian travesty.

A vote against a homosexual marriage is a vote against Christianity.

I live in Canada and homosexuals can get married and know true love and a true union. In the US, homosexuals must live as second class citizens that are denied the beauty and sanctity of marriage under their god.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:18 am
Chumly,

Perhaps you missed this ~ I DON'T GET TO EVEN CAST A VOTE FOR THIS! ~ NO VOTE! NO WIELDING OF ANY POWER GOING ON HERE! I'm just having a discussion! No vote! Just talking.

You are assigning power to me that I do not even have! Why are you getting so bent out of shape over this? This is my position on the matter once and for all. If I had a vote I would vote against it because I believe it is wrong. If you vote against something because you believe it is wrong there is no difference.

Calm down! I DON'T GET TO CAST A VOTE ON THIS! My extent of even discussing this is on A2K and with my friends who are in this position.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:42 am
hephzibah wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Momma Angel,
It does not matter what your two friends think, by stopping homosexual marriage you deny the homosexual's who do want to marry the true love and union that a marriage brings. How can you be so cruel and heartless as to deny such an elemental need? How can you wield such power so recklessly? How can you put yourself above so many others?


You are so blinded by the offence you find in the fact that momma would vote against same sex marriage that you are dangerously close to sounding hypocritical here.
How so? Tolerance does not mean I should excuse Mama. Sadly she will hurt homosexuals by denying them their union with god. Mama is not allowing the freedom of choice and behavior that we talked about earlier.

Tolerance is very important, but so is protecting those that do not have the same rights as you and I.

Mama is wrong in that I am not against her, but I will try and help anyone that is not treated equally and fairly. Remember it used to be women, Native Indians, Jews, Blacks and Homosexuals.

I live in Canada and homosexuals can get married here just like anyone else, so it's been there done that all over again!

Tolerance:
A disposition to allow freedom of choice and behavior
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:55 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Chumly,

Perhaps you missed this ~ I DON'T GET TO EVEN CAST A VOTE FOR THIS! ~ NO VOTE! NO WIELDING OF ANY POWER GOING ON HERE! I'm just having a discussion! No vote! Just talking.

You are assigning power to me that I do not even have! Why are you getting so bent out of shape over this? This is my position on the matter once and for all. If I had a vote I would vote against it because I believe it is wrong. If you vote against something because you believe it is wrong there is no difference.

Calm down! I DON'T GET TO CAST A VOTE ON THIS! My extent of even discussing this is on A2K and with my friends who are in this position.
At no time in the future will you never vote Republican, promise? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:55 am
Main Entry: tol·er·ance
Pronunciation: 'tä-l&-r&n(t)s, 'täl-r&n(t)s

Function: noun

1 : capacity to endure pain or hardship : ENDURANCE, FORTITUDE, STAMINA


2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b : the act of allowing something



Chumly,

According to that definition, I am tolerant. I do have sympathy for homosexuals. I am doing nothing to stop anyone from doing anything in this issue. I don't get a vote. If it becomes legal, as it has in many places, then it is legal. I don't have to like it. I don't like jaywalking laws either. I don't go around carrying signs against jaywalking laws and I don't go around carrying signs about same sex marriage. IT'S JUST A DISCUSSION! What do you not understand about that?

I cannot stop anyone from doing anything. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't make me cruel and heartless. There's a lot of things I don't agree with in this world. I don't run around abusing anyone because of it. If you think I am well, I can't do anything about it. I think you are so overreacting on this.

And just so you know, NO ONE can separate anyone from God but themselves. Not me, not you, not a law, nothing and no one except an individual themself.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:58 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Main Entry: tol·er·ance
Pronunciation: 'tä-l&-r&n(t)s, 'täl-r&n(t)s

Function: noun

1 : capacity to endure pain or hardship : ENDURANCE, FORTITUDE, STAMINA


2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b : the act of allowing something



Chumly,

According to that definition, I am tolerant. I do have sympathy for homosexuals. I am doing nothing to stop anyone from doing anything in this issue. I don't get a vote. If it becomes legal, as it has in many places, then it is legal. I don't have to like it. I don't like jaywalking laws either. I don't go around carrying signs against jaywalking laws and I don't go around carrying signs about same sex marriage. IT'S JUST A DISCUSSION! What do you not understand about that?

I cannot stop anyone from doing anything. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't make me cruel and heartless. There's a lot of things I don't agree with in this world. I don't run around abusing anyone because of it. If you think I am well, I can't do anything about it. I think you are so overreacting on this.

And just so you know, NO ONE can separate anyone from God but themselves. Not me, not you, not a law, nothing and no one except an individual themself.
No marriage, no union under god!
A Republican vote is a vote against homosexual marriage!
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:00 am
Chumly,

And yes, I am screaming this as loud as I can!

I DON'T GET A VOTE IN THIS! I DON'T GET A VOTE IN THIS!
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:05 am
Why can't you vote?
What will you vote when/if you can?
You are not powerless at all!
You can write to your congressman, among many other things.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:13 am
[quote="Chumly"]Why can't you vote?
What will you vote when/if you can?
You are not powerless at all!
You can write to your congressman, among many other things.[/quote]Chumly,

This has not come up for a vote in Louisiana. If I vote, sorry, I would vote against it. I do not believe it is right. PERIOD. The Bible says it is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Therefore, I cannot, in all good conscience, vote for it. If I vote for it, that IMO, is showing approval for it. Sorry, I am not going to write anyone asking that this law be passed.

Again, I have the same right as you do. Tell you what, you show me in the Constitution of the United States that says I MUST NOT consider my religious beliefs when deciding on what to vote on or who to vote for, and I will abstain from voting on it if I ever get the chance. Ok? Can you do that? No. That's because there is nothing that says I have to base my decision to vote on anything. There is nothing that says you have to base your decision to vote on anything either.

Imagine that? A law that covers us both! A law that lets us both vote on what we think is best. Wow! I can't imagine it, can you?

Chumly, do you suppose what Hephzibah meant by you were coming close to being hypocritical might have something to do with the fact that you are, in essence, telling me I don't have the right to exercise my vote as it is given to me under the Constitution of the United Sates? You are, in essence, accusing me of trying to deny someone else's right by exercising my own right?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:38 am
Momma Angel wrote:
The Bible says it is an abomination....
Where does it say this exaclty?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:44 am
The Bible does not speak of gays. Nor does it speak of the earth orbiting the sun. Sexual identity was not a concept of biblical times.

It speaks of homosexual acts only when they are part of sacred prostitution, idolatry, promiscuity, seducing children, rape, or violating hospitality. It condemns all such acts, whether heterosexual, homosexual, or having nothing to do with sex.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:52 am
Mom,
The Bible tells you how to base your vote, right?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 06:27 am
MOAN likes to spout the "new covenant" crap whenever someone raises a valid objection to the nasty character of the old testament--but she's right there with it when it comes time to spew typical christian intolerance on others.

There is a word for that--hypocricy.
0 Replies
 
Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 06:55 am
Chumly wrote:
The Bible does not speak of gays. Nor does it speak of the earth orbiting the sun. Sexual identity was not a concept of biblical times.

It speaks of homosexual acts only when they are part of sacred prostitution, idolatry, promiscuity, seducing children, rape, or violating hospitality. It condemns all such acts, whether heterosexual, homosexual, or having nothing to do with sex.


Obviously not all would agree with you on your interpretation of the Bible.

I
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:02 am
Chumly wrote:
The Bible does not speak of gays. Nor does it speak of the earth orbiting the sun. Sexual identity was not a concept of biblical times.

It speaks of homosexual acts only when they are part of sacred prostitution, idolatry, promiscuity, seducing children, rape, or violating hospitality. It condemns all such acts, whether heterosexual, homosexual, or having nothing to do with sex.


Look again Chumly. Romans 1:26-28 does not speak of the things you list above, just merely that it is considered and unnatural, and shameful use for sex.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 08:39 am
Chumly:

Quote:
How so? Tolerance does not mean I should excuse Mama. Sadly she will hurt homosexuals by denying them their union with god. Mama is not allowing the freedom of choice and behavior that we talked about earlier.


Neither are you.

Quote:
Tolerance is very important, but so is protecting those that do not have the same rights as you and I.


I agree, but is it really considered "protecting" when you are bashing someone else over the head? Are you saying then it is ok to hurt one in order to protect another?

Quote:
Mama is wrong in that I am not against her, but I will try and help anyone that is not treated equally and fairly. Remember it used to be women, Native Indians, Jews, Blacks and Homosexuals.

I live in Canada and homosexuals can get married here just like anyone else, so it's been there done that all over again!

Tolerance:
A disposition to allow freedom of choice and behavior


I understand what your motive is here chumly but being frank, your presentation sucks. Take a look at the very words that have come out of your own mouth:

Quote:
Yes you are being heartless & cruel! You have no right deny homosexuals the right to get married under their god. You have no right to deny the love of homosexuals under their god.


You are doing the exact same thing you are accusing her of here. While I understand your position and and how strongly you feel about this, do you really believe it is any more ok for you to deny her the right to give her oppinion?

Quote:
You are abusing homosexuals by voting against their love and forcing them to live without their god.

How can you wield the power to destroy love so recklessly?


You are abusing her by forcing your oppinion about voting against homosexual marriage down her throat, then throwing in a little accusation here for dessert. You are from Canada, we are not. Apparently your laws are different than ours. She has a constitutional right to vote in any manner she wishes. You don't have the right to try to beat her to a pulp because you wouldn't vote as you would.

Quote:
What is wrong with allowing two homosexuals to truly love each other in marriage under their god?


She has answered this question, more than once, but you don't like her answer so instead you choose to try to back her into a corner. To the person who believes and follows the teaching of the bible homosexuality is considered a sin. It's that simple. It's a different belief than you hold. Big whoop! Build a bridge and get over it please.

Quote:
You may think we all have the same rights, but you are stealing the freedom from homosexuals to love under their god and forcing them to live with bigotry and prejudice.


Again forcing your oppinion down her throat and throwing a little accusation in for dessert. What you neglect to see is that her right to vote for or against homosexual marriage is the exact same right the homosexuals have, as well as anyone else who disagree's with it!

Quote:
The right to vote against a homosexual marriage is not a fair and loving right at all, it's a cruel, mean spirited, un-humanitarian, un-Christian travesty.

A vote against a homosexual marriage is a vote against Christianity.


I disagree. Again, they have the exact same right to vote here as we do. The way you treat those who disagree with you is in no way fair, loving, or right at all either. Rather it is cruel, mean spirited, un-christian travesty.
0 Replies
 
 

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