God & The Burden of Proof

Exactaly my point JB. Why is it then that people now a days believe that we cannot get it from the source? Why is it that the bible alone is counted by christians as proof of what they believe? I would love to pick your brain about some of these issues because I honestly am clueless concerning some of the stuff that has been talked about here. I don't even know where to look to find the source of information others have used regarding "the canon" and pauls writings... well any of that.

Well, i am certain that would be a good deal out there about Paul and the cult. The evidence is inferential, though. It is only after Paul began tinkering with the Hey-Zeus cult that the attributes of Mithraism--virgin birth, son of god, December 25th, martyrdom, "cannibalistic" liturgical ritual--appear in the practice of the cult, for as much as anyone can be certain on such a point. That those were derived from Mithraism is not to be doubted, though, as they are attributes of that cult, and pre-date christianity.

Well, i am certain that would be a good deal out there about Paul and the cult. The evidence is inferential, though. It is only after Paul began tinkering with the Hey-Zeus cult that the attributes of Mithraism--virgin birth, son of god, December 25th, martyrdom, "cannibalistic" liturgical ritual--appear in the practice of the cult, for as much as anyone can be certain on such a point. That those were derived from Mithraism is not to be doubted, though, as they are attributes of that cult, and pre-date christianity.

Mithras was very popular among Roman soldiers I believe. Set forgive me for not reading and remembering every word of all your posts, but is Hey-Zeus a Setanta pun, or does it have deeper significance?

Neo, i already pointed out that such a contention were inferential. Pick your bone with someone else, i've had my breakfast.

Well, i am certain that would be a good deal out there about Paul and the cult. The evidence is inferential, though. It is only after Paul began tinkering with the Hey-Zeus cult that the attributes of Mithraism--virgin birth, son of god, December 25th, martyrdom, "cannibalistic" liturgical ritual--appear in the practice of the cult, for as much as anyone can be certain on such a point. That those were derived from Mithraism is not to be doubted, though, as they are attributes of that cult, and pre-date christianity.

Unlike the 'non-intellectual' believers of his day Origen believed that the Bible

...contains three levels of meaning, corresponding to the threefold Pauline (and Platonic) division of a person into body, soul and spirit. The bodily level of Scripture, the bare letter, is normally helpful as it stands to meet the needs of the more simple. The psychic level, corresponding to the soul, is for making progress in perfection.… [The] spiritual interpretation deals with 'unspeakable mysteries' so as to make humanity a "partaker of all the doctrines of the Spirit's counsel".[11]

It has often been pointed out that Origen was not consistent in the distinction he made between the three levels of Scripture. In reality he only discussed two levels - those of the letter and the spirit.[12] Most modern theologians and Bible students seek to identify the meaning God intended a biblical text to have to its original audience. From this they derive its contemporary application, which (to be considered valid) must be linked to the text's original meaning.[13] For Origen the universal application - what the text teaches about Christ and how the reader can become like Him - was the original meaning of the text.[14] If a text did not appear to be speaking about how you might advance towards perfection then you had misunderstood it. This was the key that showed Origen that he had interpreted a text correctly. To put it simply: if he could make a passage speak in this way then he was confident that he had uncovered its true 'spiritual' meaning. Some passages yielded such an application easily; others required more spiritual insight and, sometimes, the rejection of the historical meaning. It was this 'insight' that the 'literalists' (those who saw only the 'letter') lacked.

By the way, a quote from the old testament about a virgin birth does not pre-date Mithraism, even if it does predate the popularity of that cult among the Romans. Mithraism derives from the Zoarastrian tradition of the Pharsee and the Medes--the Persians. For those who are not hide-bound by the Judeo-christian tradition, the Babylonian captivity during which the Hebrews were exposed to a wider and more sophisticated culture, including the Zoarastrian beliefs of their Persian captors is the obvious source of Jewish monotheism, not evident in their pre-captivity tradition.

In August, 1914, Lieutenant Harry Colebourn, a Veterinary Officer with the 34th Fort Garry Horse of Manitoba, was travelling by train from his home in Winnipeg to enroll in the Canadian Army Veterinary Corps in Valcartier, Quebec.

Travelling by Canadian Pacific Railway, he had to change trains at White River Bend in Ontario, where he noticed a man further along the station platform with an American black bear cub tied to the arm of the bench on which he was seated.

He struck up a conversation and, learning that the man was a trapper who had shot and killed the cub's mother, Colebourn offered him $20 for the young bear -- the trapper eagerly accepted the offer and the cub was taken to Quebec, where she became the mascot of the 2nd Canadian Infantry Brigade.

In December 1914, the 2nd Brigade was preparing to move to France in great secrecy. Colebourn decided it was unsafe to take her into battle; so, while passing through London on the way to France on December 9th, 1914, he visited London Zoo and asked them to care for the cub until his return, which he optimistically anticipated would be no longer than two weeks. Of course, 'that war to end all wars' was not to end so quickly. It was not until 1918 that Colebourn returned safely to London. Realising that the bear, now known affectionately by her keepers and visitors as Winnie, was happy and content in her new home, he decided to leave her there.