Conditions for vigorous, innovative art ambience ?

Therapy? You have avoided answering the question.

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CH, if you have to ask....
By the way, I quit painting in the 50s because I came to realize that I wanted to be a "painter" (and enjoy the social perks of that heroic identity) rather than simply to paint. Many decades later, I find myself painting without feeling that I am a "painter" in the heroic sense. I think this is the case with Florence, whose mind I have known for years now. Indeed, I think she, and I and many of the artists engaged in A2K, consider ART itself to be an heroric or vital aspect of culture. We artists are, if anything, its soldiers and beneficiaries.

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By the way, I too avoided answering your question about the meaning of aesthetic experience. I couldn't really begin to answer it. But it is at the center of my life.

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The making of art is one of the most independent and original acts you perform-- but, when you follow theories, it seems to me you are holding your finger up to the wind in order to fit in rather then forge your own way.

Artists as soldiers? Please tell me, what war are you fighting?

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Well, for most, I suspect it takes heroic EFFORT
to be an artist. I was reading about E.J. Hughes
in Saturdays' Globe and Mail (by Gary Mason) .

At the age of 40 Hughes was considering a career as a postal worker, since his art was providing only a most modest living for himself and his wife. His work was then
discovered by a Montreal dealer Dr. Max Stern
entered into a life long agreement that the dealer
would receive all his work for "regular but unspectacular payments." Hughes
was thrilled since it would mean his wife could
go back east to see relatives, and they would
have food on the table.

Last year one of Hughes paintings
sold for close on a million dollars. Jacques
Barbeau who owns nearly 80 of his works
describes his work as "the heart and soul of
British Columbia."

Hughes is now 92 years old.

http://www.ejhughes.ca/

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JLNobody wrote:

CLIFFHANGER, that was sh*tty. I consider "elitism" to be a put-down term used by those who are envious of the achievements of the few. And the production of great science, art, and literature are a property of the few. I don't mind that. Geniuses are almost by definition the few, i.e., exceptional. What I DO mind is that the education systems of most Western societies focus more on the generation of minds that are equipped--because of an emphasis on the practical arts of mathematics and engineering--to further the goals of making a good living, but not necessarily living an interesting life. Very few people are given the preparation to enjoy the finest achievements in music, art and literature. They are, instead, conditioned only to enjoy the more "recreational" or "distracting" forms of popular arts. Which is one of the reasons I detested the rise of Pop Art.
Elitism in terms of artistic production is inevitable; elitism in terms of the consumption of the fine arts is an unfortunate result of educational deprivation. I hope you are not too dense to know what I'm talking about.

very well put jln

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Cliff Hanger wrote:

Artists as soldiers? Please tell me, what war are you fighting?

surely obviously the one of wrestling with ideas and trying to express them powerfully in paint? - or whatever is the medium of choice.

The majority of artists aren't elitist any more than any other sector of society - you'll find elitists scientists, it is a human trait and isn't an art trait.

Florence, yes, great art movements from the past have indeed happened when civilisations were at the height of their powers - when there was time and money to indulge in culture of all sorts.

I agree that it is a basic human need though. Cave paintings onwards. mankind has painted and carved and created.

The current economic situation certainly affects art sales and art choices - it is safer for collectors to buy established artists from the past as they feel they will hold their monetary value. Contemporary art by living artists is bought simply for the love of it and less often as an investment.

How long can the west hold on as the strongest world power?

If China becomes a huge world power then tastes and influences will change. Super powers have come and gone all through history.

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Vivien wrote:

If China becomes a huge world power then tastes and influences will change. Super powers have come and gone all through history.

Oooh, Bush could be America's Nero.

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questioner, I for one never had any doubt but that Bush WAS America's Nero...hell, if Nero was fiddling when Rome Burned....Bush was bicycling when Katrina flooded.
vivien, you really captured the difference as well as link between the great artistic movement and activity and the individual talent and expression of the individual artist and his/her circle. I liked your post very much.

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Aside...for a description of a singular artist I came across when teaching painting at the Henry St SEttlement House NYC...
She was in her early 70's. She came to class with her two grandchildren in hand. She was an emigrant from Columbia, SA to the United States.
While she was working in class, her grandchildren would crawl all over the studio floor,
weaving in and out of the furniture and the students' legs...all of whom were very tolerant.
She would begin at the right hand of the paper with her brush and paints, and moving towards the left would create relentlessly and ruthlessly, leaving behind a visual poem of beautiful color and composition. She was, indeed, a "natural."

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shepaints-That Hughes sold for 920000 Canadian, so , doing the exchange , it came out to 350 bucks US.
His work is something like a Rocky mt TH Benton, no?

This thread keeps coming back to painting as a sort of anelema and yet the Universities seem to be not supporting the paint media faculty as much as Id like. Most of the money goes to the graphics depts, many universities dont keep their graphics depts with the college of arts and sciences.

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Questioner wrote:

Vivien wrote:
If China becomes a huge world power then tastes and influences will change. Super powers have come and gone all through history.

Oooh, Bush could be America's Nero.

now it's worrying but that's a good analogy in fact - though you were probably being sarcastic

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Farmer, are you teasing us about the low
value of the Canadian $? LOL!!!

My point about Hughes is that he worked so
hard all his life for very little financial remuneration. The art world only took notice
of him when he was in his eighties.

His painting that sold at auction for just under a million, he had sold for only $300. The dealers and speculators are the ones who made money off all his effort. I wish artists were paid royalties.

Still, Hughes says: "I learn something new everyday, and I get to do something I absolutely love doing. I must be the luckiest man alive".

The article also mentions how his career was
hurt by abstraction both practically and emotionally.

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Farmer, I am not very familiar with TH Benton, can
you give us a link?

Inspiring surroundings (sometimes tied to a common purpose) seem to provide impetus and fertile conditions for vigorous, innovative art ambience.

I am thinking of the locales of the Impressionists, Group of Seven (Canada) etcetera.......What do you think?

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farmerman wrote:

sThis thread keeps coming back to painting as a sort of anelema and yet the Universities seem to be not supporting the paint media faculty as much as Id like. Most of the money goes to the graphics depts, many universities dont keep their graphics depts with the college of arts and sciences.

There are still a few universities out there that emphasize the painting/sculpting aspects of art more than the Graphics, though you are correct in asserting that they are becoming rarer.

The unfortunate reality is that there are currently more jobs for skilled Graphic Designers than there are for Painters or Sculptors. More's the pity. When the Universities look at their accreditation, they tend to lean more towards those realms of study that ensure job placement.

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the Impressionists made the ordinary extraordinary - think how Monet painted railway stations - grubby sooty places but he made them special. The landscape around Giverny is nothing special, just gentle slopes of farmland but he made it special. The garden at Giverny is amazing in itself.

So sometimes I'd agree but at other times I think it is in a way of looking.

Turner with Rain, Steam, Speed takes a 'simple' image of a train speeding through mist and rain and puts a hare, barely noticeable running along the tracks in front in panic, the whole thing is full of light and atmosphere and speed and says so much about the advance of technology of the day.

The advent of the train enabled people to travel at speeds never possible before and this certainly affected the way artists looked at fleeting images, seen and then gone.

Lowry painted the industrial north of England, with hordes of little figures
rushing out of factory gates, the factory chimneys churning out black smoke - not a beautiful place but his paintiings are incredible.

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For the past few decades the universities' function has changed from a venerable institution that preserves the cultural heritage of a civilisation, emphasizes the virtue of the pursuit of knowledge, etc etc. to a vocational institution that "finishes" young people for the purpose of serving the society in a job slot.
As "art quality" has shifted from Rembrandt to Warhol, a parallel shift has been made by the universities.

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I'm not too worried about the priorities of the universities. The academy has never--at least in modern times--been the source of great art.

GH, I guess the reason I have not defined "aesthetic experience" for you is that "aesthetic" as beauty is so easily confused with "prettiness." But I must note that, as Stenhdal put it, "Beauty is a the promise of happiness." I've always felt that the dreary appearance of blighted ghettos could be easily ameliorated by the planting of trees and flowers on public streets and the painting of public buildings. What makes Watts and Beverly Hills in Los Angeles look so different is LARGELY a visual difference that can be easily minimized at no great expense.
Artists as soldiers struggle and sacrifice to create beauty which serves to mitigate the ugliness that promises unhappiness.

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I do agree that the economic status of societies has an effect on the cultivation of the arts. Wealth, i.e., economic surplus, permits leizure necessary to
create,
buy,
learn about,
enjoy,
and sponsor artistic education, museums and artists.

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Many museums are de accessioning. Im a "friend" of a marvelous little museum in Reading Pa that was originally established by textile and Railroad mogul money. Its been going through hard times as it has sought patrons and friends to help support. I am saddened when the museum de-accession leads the art in the other direction(It disappears reom public view). Will there only be a few BIG museums out there? and the marvelous little ones (even the Farnsworth up in Rockland Maine) will go the way of dodos?

Just a question underpinned by a deep concern.

She paints, sorry, my shorthand is pretty bad lately TH Benton, is Thomas Hart Benton. (not the politician but the WPA artist and uralist) He ws sort of the Diego Rivera of the US in the 30's. Then he just fell out of favor until his later life association with Camelot and the Kennedys

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Conditions for vigorous, innovative art ambience ?

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