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To Do a Christmas Tree or Not?

 
 
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 07:10 am
I have been listening to some very interesting conversations regarding Christmas and Christmas trees. Also, I have gotten quite a bit of useful information from others on these threads about the origins of Christmas.

Quote:
Jeremiah 10:3-4 describes a pagan custom similar to decorating a Christmas tree. What the passage is speaking about is the uselessness of following the pagan religious practices of other people who do not believe in the one true God. In this case, the Israelites were following the practice of the Babylonians by decorating and worshipping a evergreen tree. The modern day tradition of a Christmas tree does indeed come from this ancient Babylonian practice. That leaves us with a difficult decision - should we continue a practice that was started as a pagan religious ritual? Here are a couple of things to consider: (1) Does the tree add to or subtract from the meaning of Christmas? (2) Is the tree still a pagan symbol or just a cultural tradition?

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christmas-tree.html



Others have said they feel that Jeremiah 10:3-4 is talking about cutting down trees and carving idols out of them and not about decorating an evergreen tree.

I am very curious as to what others feel about this. Do you think it is a pagan celebration or is what is important is how you personally view and celebrate this day (the birth of Jesus Christ symbolically)?
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 07:42 am
I have nothing to say about Christmas trees on religious grounds, but I do have an objection to people putting up live trees. To me, one of the saddest sites is on the day after Christmas, seeing the corrals of Christmas trees that never were sold. They were cut down, only to be later destroyed. In addition, the ones that were sold, are also destroyed a couple of weeks later.

To me, that is the waste of a finite natural resource that is totally unnecessary. Many people don't care for fake trees, but I have seen some that looked so natural that you had to smell and feel to be able to tell whether they were "real" or not.

I also think that real trees can be a safety hazard, and also generate a lot of unnecessary work and expense for the folks who take care of sanitation. Ultimately, this expense reflects in additional costs to taxpayers.

Personally, I think that a well draped Christmas tree is lovely, but it is unncessary to destroy live trees to achieve the same effect.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 07:45 am
Here in southeast Texas, many of the trees are used to stop beach erosion after they come down.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 07:51 am
What about people who did not put up a tree, but don't think it's wrong?

What about people who put up a tree, but it wasn't their idea?

Wanted to put up a tree, but couldn't afford one?

and so on....
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 07:57 am
We always have an artificial one.
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shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 08:00 am
I was coming to say pretty much the same thing as phoenix.

On the pagan celebration note..
being a pagan of sorts.. yeah. I do believe it is a pagan celebration.
Winter solstice.
IT was a celebration of the end of the earths "" life"" , bounty, and ability to grow and harvest your food.
It was , in a sense , a time of rest for the entire world. Animals. plants, .... everything.

I know my answer is very fanciful and simple , but I intended it that way.. ;-)
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 08:03 am
I didn't put up a tree.

That's because I'm a single guy in my 20's who could care less about putting up a tree. And it's a tradition, not "wrong," and if you think so go swallow some rat poison.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 10:31 am
You look much older. You should work out. Laughing
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 10:37 am
some options are missing: such as yes, although i feel somewhat guilty about it... or no, i can't be bothered though there's nothing wrong with it...

i love christmas live trees and love to have one each year - though this year we opted for a fake one.I want to get a little tree in a pot that I could use for 2-3 years, then just plant it in the garden and get a new little one. that way i'll have my christmas tree forest one day. just gotta figure out which continent i want to live on and buy a house with a garden. that should all be easy...
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 10:41 am
I adore live Christmas trees. I felt guilty about the ecological aspects of cutting a single tree until I read something about the ecological benefit of Christmas tree FARMS -- all those trees growing for 3-10 years, and then being replaced. Anything with ecological benefit + profit motive is good news, IMO. I'll see if I can find something about that.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 10:46 am
Here's one:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0203/p02s01-usgn.html

Excerpt:

Quote:
SURFSIDE, TEXAS - Almost every sunny weekend, Carlina Schubert comes to the beach to surf, shoot off firecrackers with friends, or help her mom collect shells.
Now, the high school senior is spending one really wet weekend dragging withered Christmas trees across the beach in an effort to protect it. In a matter of weeks, wind-swept sand trapped in these old trees will create desperately needed dunes, protecting the beach from erosion and the nearby homes from being swept away.

It's one of the many ways communities are recycling the remains of the millions of trees discarded after Christmas gifts are unwrapped and eggnog polished off.

As more Americans celebrate with fake trees in an effort to protect the environment and stave off a carpet of Christmas-tree needles, tree growers are becoming more vocal about the ecological benefits of real trees - especially the benefits that come post presents.

While they grow, advocates say, real trees stabilize soil and provide refuge for wildlife. But even after they're toppled, they can be used in an increasing number of ways.


The most common of those is mulching: Towns collect the trees and grind them up for use in gardens, parks, or zoos. But communities with specific needs are using them more creatively.

In Louisiana, for instance, discarded trees are used to build underwater fences along barge canals, helping preserve freshwater marshland areas. In addition, they protect the Louisiana coastline from salt-water intrusion.

In other states, the trees are piled around watering holes to provide shelter for birds, or sunk into lakes and ponds to make refuge and feeding areas for fish. In Michigan, trees are first laid on frozen lakes to guide snowmobilers before sinking to the bottom when spring arrives and the ice melts.

And here along the Gulf of Mexico coast, they are staked together in long rows, a skeleton for new dunes.

"This is the least expensive and the best solution to our problem," says Denise Grier, supervisor of special events at the Brazoria County Parks Department. "And people are getting twice the benefit out of these trees."


Another with more specifics of benefits while they're growing:

Quote:
During their growth period of seven to fifteen years, real Christmas trees provide many environmental and ecological benefits. These include erosion control, wildlife habitat, oxygen production, and carbon dioxide and other pollutant removal.


http://www.christmastrees.on.ca/index.php?action=display&cat=29&v=58
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 10:49 am
Christmas trees here in Europe are planted and harvested exactly for that only purpose: to be a christmas tree in December. (Although we seldom call them 'Christmas tree but fir tree, like in the Christmas carol "O fir tree, o fir tree, you wonderful tree ...'.)

Might well be that the tradition of decorating Christmas trees is pagan or/or noted in the bible: when it was done first in Europe (Bremen/Germany 1570), it had charity (and Christian) backgrounds.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 10:49 am
Sounds good to me, Soz. As long as the trees are being put to good use and not wasted!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 11:09 am
While old Christmas trees formerly were used as "a basis" for Easter fires, they are meanwhile - since 15, 20 years or so - 'recycled' in the local composting plants. (Collected in the fisrt January weeks.)
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 01:12 pm
(from the "globe and mail" , toronto, canada)

Your used Christmas tree might save you from a bird flu pandemic.

As governments around the world scramble to stockpile the antiviral Tamiflu, generic drug maker Biolyse Pharma Corp. plans to begin next month making shikimic acid, the main ingredient in the manufacture of oseltamivir, commonly known as Tamiflu, from the needles of discarded Christmas trees.

Tamiflu, as almost everybody knows by now, treats seasonal influenza and is also being championed as a first line of defence against a possible pandemic outbreak of bird flu, which has been devastating chicken populations across Southeast Asia and parts of Europe.

So far, the H5N1 virus, which usually strikes people in close contact with diseased fowl or their droppings, has infected an estimated 130 people, killing 70. The worry is that H5N1 will undergo a genetic mutation with a human seasonal influenza virus, morphing into a deadly strain that could jump between people like the common cold.

After being rejected as a Tamiflu supplier by Swiss drug maker F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd., which has a monopoly grip on the manufacture of the drug, Biolyse turned its sights to making shikimik acid.

The reason: the price of shikimik acid has soared to more than $500 (U.S.) a kilogram from $45 in the past 12 months on shortages of Tamiflu and skyrocketing demand.

Biolyse specializes in extracting chemicals from plants and biomaterials at its plant in St. Catharines, Ont., and now makes a generic version of the cancer drug paclitaxel from yew trees.

"Our research has shown that 2-to-3 per cent of the biomass from various pine, spruce and fir trees is extractible shikimic acid," Biolyse principal Claude Mercure said yesterday.

As the process moves to the commercial stage from the laboratory, he said the company is aiming to eventually produce one-to-three tons of shikimic acid a month.

To get started, next month it will receive some 500,000 Christmas trees to be donated by Toronto-based Gro-Bark, a forestry recycling company.

Most shikimic acid is now extracted from star anise, the fruit of a slow-growing evergreen in China, which is harvested for several months each year. That's why Roche's production of Tamiflu takes about 12 months and there isn't nearly enough of the drug to go around for government stockpiling.

"What makes our process more viable is the fact that the particular species of pine, spruce and fir that we are working with are far more abundant than the seedlings of star anise," said John Fulton, Biolyse's vice-president for new product development.

Mr. Mercure said Biolyse has no plans to make Tamiflu unless Ottawa grants compulsory licences under the Patent Act in a national emergency. In such a case, he said the company could produce the drug in five weeks.

In countries where Roche's patents on Tamiflu aren't recognized, like the Philippines and Thailand, he said Biolyse is in discussions to sell shikimic acid and provide technical assistance so the drug can be manufactured for use in that country.

© The Globe and Mail
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 01:21 pm
Quote:
Shikimic acid, more commonly known as its anionic form shikimate, is an important biochemical intermediate in plants and microorganisms. Its name comes from the Japanese flower shikimi (シキミ, Illicium anisatum), from which it was first isolated and from which it is commercially produced today. Shikimic acid is present in most autotrophic organisms, but the isolation yield is low.

Shikimic acid is a precursor for:

the aromatic amino acids phenylalanine and tyrosine;
indole, indole derivatives and tryptophan;
many alkaloids and other aromatic metabolites;
tannins;
lignin.
In pharmaceutical industry, shikimic acid is used as a base material for production of oseltamivir. The low isolation yield of shikimic acid is blamed for the 2005 shortage of oseltamivir.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikimic_acid



Quote:
Oseltamivir is an antiviral drug, a neuraminidase inhibitor used in the treatment and prophylaxis of both influenza A and influenza B. Oseltamivir was the first orally active neuraminidase inhibitor commercially developed. It was developed by Gilead Sciences and is currently marketed by Hoffman-La Roche (Roche) under the trade name Tamiflu®.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oseltamivir




hamburger- This stuff is fascinating. Thanks for the article.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 01:24 pm
of course there are already questions being raised about the effectiveness of tamiflu in combating the avian flu . all pretty confusing to a layperson . hbg
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 01:31 pm
christmas trees
...experts warn against personal tamiflu stockpile . individuals might become "infected timebombs" !...SOURCE - CTV NEWS/CANADA...
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 01:34 pm
I appreciate all your answers. Chai Tea, those are some good things for the poll. Do you know if I can edit the poll questions? I'd love to add those in there.

I know some people will take a live tree and wrap its roots in burlap and put it in a big bucket and keep it moist. They don't put lights on the tree so it won't burn. After Christmas, they plant the tree. It rarely gets that cold here in Louisiana so this is an option.

I hope everyone has a wonderful Holiday!
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 01:38 pm
hamburger- I asked my doctor for Tamiflu, and he gave me a prescription.............just in case. Even if there is no bird flu epidemic, the drug will come in handy if I come down with the regular flu. That happened last year, even though I had had a shot.
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