Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2006 05:43 am
Quote:
Geez. I just had some things to do, that's all. I have a pretty sarcastic sense of humor. It isn't mean spirited, it's just in fun. It means I think you're cool. Please know that in order for you to offend me, you will have to try to offend me. I am kinda' sensitive, but I always make a big effort to give people the benefit of the doubt (that's my mantra).


So where were we? Something about touching a hot stove?


LOL well cool then. I am satisfied! Yeah, I happen to think your pretty cool too! Smile

This is where we were at:

Quote:
A hot burner will burn you if you touch it. (deterministic framework)

So you won't touch it. (free will)

It won't burn you if you don't touch it. (The two coexisting)


However, I gotta say this too. I looked up the definition of free and found this interesting:

Main Entry: 1free
Pronunciation: 'frE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): fre·er; fre·est
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English frEo; akin to Old High German frI free, Welsh rhydd, Sanskrit priya own, dear
1 a : having the legal and political rights of a citizen b : enjoying civil and political liberty <free citizens> c : enjoying political independence or freedom from outside domination d : enjoying personal freedom : not subject to the control or domination of another

2 a : not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being : choosing or capable of choosing for itself b : determined by the choice of the actor or performer <free actions> c : made, done, or given voluntarily or spontaneously

3 a : relieved from or lacking something unpleasant or burdensome <free from pain> <a speech free of political rhetoric> b : not bound, confined, or detained by force

4 a : having no trade restrictions b : not subject to government regulation c of foreign exchange : not subject to restriction or official control

5 a : having no obligations (as to work) or commitments <I'll be free this evening> b : not taken up with commitments or obligations <a free evening>

6 : having a scope not restricted by qualification <a free variable>

If you want to see the other 64 entries for free, here's the link:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/free

Haven't looked up will yet. Will have to try to do it a little later... unless someone wants to do it for me. :wink: Yeah... I've been pretty busy lately too. I haven't given up on discussing this yet though!
0 Replies
 
queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2006 01:42 pm
That only leads us back to another question...

Can you freely choose to turn the stove on--and also turn it off?
0 Replies
 
Im the other one
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2006 02:51 pm
neologist wrote:
If you decide to PM someone, will it be done of your own free will?

BTW, PM ain't all it's cracked up to be. Probably 'cause its 2/3 of PMS.


Laughing
clever one, aren't we?
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2006 03:37 pm
LOL you guys are funny! I gotta gather some thoughts here... then I'm ready to go. LOL is anyone even here... here... here...
0 Replies
 
Im the other one
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2006 03:42 pm
me here, but gotta go now.

adios!
0 Replies
 
Kehoe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 10:07 pm
Here's my 2 cents worth on this Very Happy

I believe there is a blueprint of our lives before we experience this human life.
That may account for why some feel compelled to do something, or have certain interests or whatever. Or some feel, at times, they are not doing what they feel they are supposed to. And when we do, it feels innately right somehow.
But I also believe we have free will.
We can change this life experience.
Life is about learning & growing from each experience. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 10:16 pm
We have "free will" up to a certain degree; it depends upon our environment - where we live, our government, opportunities to succeed, our genetics, and luck.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 10:59 pm
You are only free to make the decision that you most want to make. That is how "free will" can and does exist within a completely deterministic framework.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 11:23 pm
echi wrote:
You are only free to make the decision that you most want to make. That is how "free will" can and does exist within a completely deterministic framework.


Can you expand on this for me echi?

Edited this because when I read it, it didn't sound the way I meant it....

I think I might understand what you mean here... but I'm really not so sure.... ugh...
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2006 12:22 am
Heph--

I'm sorry to leave you hangin'. I will get to this, soon. It's a big one, and I've been away for a while.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jan, 2006 12:32 am
echi wrote:
You are only free to make the decision that you most want to make. That is how "free will" can and does exist within a completely deterministic framework.

I agree with this.
Freewill is an illusion, but a most convincing illusion.
I would also add that 'what we most want' is also predetermined by prior circumstance.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:04 am
Without free will, what would be the most logical deterministic conclusion to our current reality?
0 Replies
 
queen annie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 11:00 am
Unity with God and each other.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 11:46 pm
As automatons?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Mar, 2006 12:02 am
Free will has many conditions imposed on it.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Mar, 2006 12:06 am
Doktor S wrote:
echi wrote:
You are only free to make the decision that you most want to make. That is how "free will" can and does exist within a completely deterministic framework.

I agree with this.
Freewill is an illusion, but a most convincing illusion.
I would also add that 'what we most want' is also predetermined by prior circumstance.


Arrrrrrggggghhhh!
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Mar, 2006 12:09 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Free will has many conditions imposed on it.
Not the least of which are our biological limitations. But do we have moral free will?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Mar, 2006 12:31 am
"Moral" is a cultural construct.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Mar, 2006 12:33 am
exactly what do you mean by that CI?
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/princesshephzibah/calvin1.gif
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Mar, 2006 12:50 am
"Morality" is established in time and place of where one lives. Many older cultures around the world sacrificed or ate other humans. There were many that had human battles in arenas for show to entertain. Some cultures/groups today do not see anything wrong with exchanging spouses for sex.

Morality is a human construct developed subjectively usually by the leaders of the clan.

Most children can be taught to live by any standard of "morality" established by their parents and culture.
0 Replies
 
 

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