lol CI... I have a purpose here....
Ok so lets go over what we've established...
A hot burner will burn you if you touch it. (deterministic framework)
So you won't touch it. (free will)
It won't burn you if you don't touch it. (The two coexisting)
Echi said'
Quote:I am more interested in finding a way to explain (apparent) free will within a deterministic framework. If we could better understand what free will really is, maybe we could see how determinism and free will coexist.
lol sorry should have stated that with the last post.
Echi, you still here? Did that help at all?
Well, I have to run again. I will check back in a few hours. I hope that helped some.
That's excellent. Thanks.
I like broiling a sirloin every now and then. If I don't put it on the grill it won't cook.
Blahblahblah
Some aspects of our lives are completely deterministic, to be sure.
Can you imagine Benjamin Franklin peeling out in his brand new Corvette?
Can any of you realistically decide not to breathe?
Can you decide whether or not to steal?
Echi,
Please let me explain why I proposed my idea to you in the way I did. I asked you questions, not to set a trap for you, but to get you to
think about your answers before you said them. That's why I posted the statement before I asked any questions. I wanted you, and anyone else reading this, to explore the possibilities of which direction I might go with this and to really consider the possible answers. I am, by nature, very analytical. I can't help it. I pick every aspect of what ever I happen to be analyzing at the time apart and put it back together in different formats to see how it looks and what works. And to think... I used to analyze people this way too. That was one hard habit to break!
At any rate. I have no clue at this point if I've offended you, or made you to feel belittled. I am concerned about this because I agreed to meet you here to debate this with you, then you disappeared. So, I just wanted you to know, that if I have in some way offended you. I am truly sorry. I would never intentionally do something that I knew was going to not be in the best interest of the other person. And If I'm making a false assumption here with the contents of this post... well... whoops on me then!
oh yeah.... one more thing.... Only
609
more posts until I can PM people!
WHOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!
LOL, I know what you mean heph...I'm waiting too.
you're a lot closer than me!!!! oh oh I think I'm down to 607 now!!! (hehehe)
Heph, Heph, Heph...
Geez. I just had some things to do, that's all. I have a pretty sarcastic sense of humor. It isn't mean spirited, it's just in fun. It means I think you're cool. Please know that in order for you to offend me, you will have to try to offend me. I am kinda' sensitive, but I always make a big effort to give people the benefit of the doubt (that's my mantra).
So where were we? Something about touching a hot stove?
If you decide to PM someone, will it be done of your own free will?
BTW, PM ain't all it's cracked up to be. Probably 'cause its 2/3 of PMS.
neologist wrote:If you decide to PM someone, will it be done of your own free will?
Hopefully.
Quote:BTW, PM ain't all it's cracked up to be. Probably 'cause its 2/3 of PMS.
But only for half of the day!!
neologist wrote:If you decide to PM someone, will it be done of your own free will?
No. If not for the pesky one way nature of time, you would have already sent the lifetimes worth of PMs you are predetermined to send
Free will is an illusion, as the genetic prerogative to reproduce is the true underlying impetus.
Yes, my fellow Vancouverite, you seem to have reiterated my own opinion.
Life is replication.
Do we have "free will"?
What is "free will"?
But how do we know if we have "free will" or not?
"Free Will" is a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives.
A criminal goes to jail to serve a very long sentence for a hideous crime he committed in his youth. The government decides to enrol him into a rehabilitation program for the criminally insane (or the sort), so he can serve a lighter sentence and be integrated back into society. The man has been subjected to a series of psychological treatments. After undergoing intensive psychiatric therapies for five years, the man is considered "rehabilitated." And the philosophical question arises: Is the man truly rehabilitated?
In contrast, there is a method that psychologists call "conditioning," which means that "learning is the result of the application of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs." For example, dogs learn certain tricks by stimuli: dogs are given a command; dogs respond to the command; if the dogs respond to the command correctly, the dogs are rewarded with food. The dogs are forced to respond to these commands as an automatic reflect due to the association of the given command and the reward that follows afterwards. [Now], is the criminal (who enrolled into the psychological treatment by the government) considered rehabilitated, or brained washed or whatever you want to call it?
In order for people to be considered rehabilitated, they need to choose willingly for such psychological change. A tobacco smoker who has smoked abusively for years and desires to stop smoking (willingly) for health purposes is a good example of rehabilitation.
Furthermore, we do things that we regard as "free willed," like choosing the color of our shower curtains, preferring certain foods more than others, enjoying certain songs that remind us of our ex's, laughing with a giggle, etc. Do these things come from our own will?
Right after the Enlighten Era, people thought that the human body functioned because of our spirit alone; people had no idea until cadavers were secretly exhumed from their graves and sawed open, and then studied by skeptic individuals (mainly by scientist or philosophers). They found out that our bodies function as a bio-machinery, which has a heart to pump blood that carries oxygen through our entire body, a digestive system for our food to be processed, a nervous system that lets us move our body and perceive the things that surround us via the sense of touch, and a brain where all our thoughts take place. But what does this have to do if we have "free will" or not? After the Enlighten Era, there was a mile stone discovery; the purpose of our own existence lies with the existence of our own DNA. Since DNA contains our genetic codes that determine the color of our own skin, the color of our own hair and eyes, the size of our nose, and even our own personality, the question of "free will" lies in our own DNA. Yes, personality is inherited, passed down from our mother and father, through their own DNA. There are cases in which children inherit mental diseases from their mothers, and it is discovered that such diseases are caused genetically.
Because DNA is the main cause of our own personality (and all the traits mentioned above), we do not have free will. We are governed by our own genes. They tell what we have to do.
