Raising Veruca (aka: the whine list)

I'm zooming through and shouldn't be here at all (mid-trip preparations) but wanted to say OH DO I SYMPATHIZE.

Maybe it's the time of year?

At some point yesterday I was repeating to myself several times in a row, "I didn't actually prefer when she was sick and a total lump, I actually prefer her to be healthy and INCREDIBLY BORED AND WHINY, ahem, I didn't actually prefer..."

(Not sure if you caught that she had to go to the ER on Tues night -- totally fine since tho.)

I didn't hear about the ER trip! Oh no!

I'm a bit behind on things. That time of year and all.

Glad to hear that all is okay.

I didn't know you were going on a trip either! I hope it's someplace fun.

Often I think about how terribly difficult deafness (or blindness, or paralysis, or really just about any obsticle) must be when it comes to parenting. It is so hard anyway.

When you get a chance I'd love to hear about how sozlet whines to you.

I totally sympathize. If you've ever wondered what it feels like to really and truly want to take your own life, just let my two darlings double team you with whine machine.

I don't know what works. Nothing works quickly, and the few tools I have don't prevent sudden recurrence. I try to resist (and it's apparent that you do too) the urge to give them what they want just to stop that god-awful noise. The older one actually gets a time out if he's whining and can't get under control by the count of three. With the younger: "I don't understand what you're saying when you talk to me that way, is that another language?" And occasionally: "what's that sound you're making?" The response is a quiet "whining". Then, "yeah, you know I can't help you when you whine."

Hang in there boomer. You're doing a great job. And I wonder the same thing all the time about parenting with any sort of extra challenge. Twins, special needs kids, poor health, no partner, no money, etc... It's so bloody difficult, and I'm so so lucky.

It is comforting to know that I'm not alone but knowing how awful this whining thing is I can't say I'm glad to know that I'm not alone.

I like that "other language I don't speak" bit. Whining is so impossible to ignore just because it is so irritating. He can tell that it really sends me into orbit and I guess that is a better response than "in a minute". Logic is sadly missing in the four year old brain.

It is bloody difficult.

And then you have to come here and deal with me.

Life is hell.

Talk about bloody difficult.....

On a 2 year old whinning level, i feel your pain..

take something away -
Bean throws herself on the floor, sometimes causing bruises.. and cries.. yells, says NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


in stores


in peoples homes


at the dinner table


in the bathtub

>sigh<
Ian got me an MP3 player.. I keep it in mypocket with Jewel ready to play..
She wines, I put it in my ear and turn around..
oooooooooooohhhh boy..

We have whining issues, too. The amazing part is how quickly she can shut it down. Whining, tearing up, then tell her she can't have it until she asks in her nice voice.

"May I have some milk, please?"

It's hard to keep from busting out laughing.

The key to shutting down whining is not to reward it. Ever.

E-v-e-r!

Random reinforcement is actually more reinforcing that reliable reinforcement.

PREcicely.

Easier said than done, but precisely.

Yup, agree on the never, and agree that it's hard.

I once told K to let me know if she E-V-E-R succeeded in getting what she wanted by whining because then I'd failed as her mother. She cocked her head sideways, looked at me as if to question if I meant it, and smiled. End of whining for that moment at least.

Yep, I've had that conversation.

<Calm voice>Are you whining?

Yes.

Has that ever worked?

No.

So maybe you need to try something else.

Silence.

I've started doing that about crying with duckie. It's not that I think he shouldn't cry, but he's old enough now that I feel like he shouldn't cry or overeact to certain events. It goes something like this:

<Waling>Ooh! My toy is broken! Waaaaah!

I'm sorry that happened. Let me see if I can...

Waaaaaaaaaah!

Is crying going to fix your toy?

Nooooo.

Can you hear me when you're crying?

Noooo.

Then maybe you should stop.

This problem is universal!

Mo has just entered this stage and it can't be over soon enough. He has never been a whiner about anything so this is all new to me.

"Then "no"." seems to be working a bit when my response doesn't seem to be quick enough and whining starts.

Today I've added "That doesn't work at all, does it?", thanks to the advice I've received here. That seems to really be getting things churning in his head in a way that spares the volume control on the radio.

Thank you all!

Awesome! What a bright boy.

One thing I'm not particularly proud of but does work is that I laugh at her if she's being particularly over the top. Like she sometimes does this hopping thing -- it's funny! Sometimes I just let myself laugh, and then she either a) joins in b) is mortified and stops. Of course it's sometimes c) gets furious and ratchets things up a notch, but that's rare.

Actually humor is a frequent tool -- "don't have a cow, man!" often jollies her out of it, or "that looks like fun" and joining in.

As for how the whining thing works, because of lipreading it's probably similar except that I have a greater ability to tune it out by just not looking at her. (One of the times I'm unironically glad to be deaf.) She compensates with physical stuff that she knows bothers me, though, especially being "stumbly" -- just kind of randomly moving her body through space, involving knocking into things and dragging her hand along surfaces and often some low-level destruction. I can't tune out imminent damage to herself or the house, and she knows that.

Oh, great news about "that doesn't work at all"!

Oh my god, that is exactly what I do with duckie when he starts this hopping up and down and stomping thing that is so dramatic it looks like something in a movie where a kid is over-acting. I start laughing and before I know it I see a little smirk because he knows it's over the top. He'll try to get serious again but it's way too late and we end up laughing about it. Once he's out of temper tantrum mode, we can usually solve his problem together, whatever it was.

Oh that's interesting, soz, the little spacy-girl movements.

I was thinking about this last night. First thinking deafness might be a joy during the whines then considering that a lot of tugging or tapping or vibrating of some sort must accompany the sozlet's whine. I had not imagined low level destruction!

I might have to try that join in stuff! I could so use a good tantrum.

Check with the Children's Librarian at the library. There must be a good book where the Chief Whiner is a Figure of Fun.

Neither of my sons was a whiner--very fortunate or I might still be serving out a sentence for Child Murder with Painful Embellishments.

I did have to deal with repeated (and repeatedly denied) request. What seemed to work was, "What did I say the last time you asked?"

Perhaps, "Why am I going to say 'No'?" would make an interesting variation on FreeDuck's excellent range of responses.

i do the laughing too soz.
Bean will stop , in the middle of her tantrum and stare at me trying to find out what is so funny.

that makes me laugh even harder