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Origin of the Specious. Why do neoconservatives doubt Darwin

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 08:02 am
blatham wrote:
You've read Bork but not Brock?! That way lies madness. And, worse, error.

I'm currently reading Brock. That's how I know he thinks Hayek was part of the Republican noise machine. (But he doesn't seem to think he was a prominent part, since he only mentions him in passing.) I'll start a new thread on Brock as soon as I'm finished reading his book.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 08:36 am
No listing in the index for Hayek. When possible, could you point me to the page.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 08:53 am
blatham wrote:
No listing in the index for Hayek. When possible, could you point me to the page.

Try "University of Chicago" or "law and economics" then. Possibly Brock mentioned Hayek's line of research, and Hayek's name was an inference of mine. My book is at home and I am at work at the moment. So all I can say right now is that it must be somewhere in the first two chapters. That's all I have I have read yet.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 09:23 am
Meant to add earlier...

Krauthammer on ID
Quote:
Which brings us to Dover, Pa., Pat Robertson, the Kansas State Board of Education, and a fight over evolution that is so anachronistic and retrograde as to be a national embarrassment.
full column

George Will on ID
Quote:
The storm-tossed and rudderless Republican Party should particularly ponder the vote last week in Dover, Pa., where all eight members of the school board seeking re-election were defeated. This expressed the community's wholesome exasperation with the board's campaign to insinuate religion, in the guise of "intelligent design'' theory, into high school biology classes, beginning with a required proclamation that evolution "is not a fact.''

But it is. And President Bush's straddle on that subject -- "both sides'' should be taught -- although intended to be anodyne, probably was inflammatory, emboldening social conservatives.

full column

A number of conservative writers/thinkers on ID (do note the common non-denial denial doublespeak eg Kristol, Brooks)
http://teachevolution.blogspot.com/2005/07/new-republic-online-evolutionary-war.html

It isn't at all difficult to conclude, and it seems utterly foolish not to conclude, that the neoconservative find ID appealing for instrumental reasons as elucidated in the original Reason essay.

But they have a problem now. To the degree that the broad populace sees the religious right as becoming extremist and/or dangerously intrusive in civic affairs in the US, to that degree they will become a negative element in maintaining electoral power for the broader conservative movement. If Kristol and friends understand anything, it is that all hopes and desires for creating policy hinge upon wielding power. There's no real problem if the religious right's organization and vote-getting potential outweighs the negatives of their particular weird ideas (weird to neoconservatives, too) but where they are seen by the other folks in the movement (such as Kristol's crowd) as being a likely vote-negative influence, then the sort of open divisiveness we see in those columns above will become more apparent.

And here's a short primer on Strauss (and who in the modern conservative movement dig the fellow) courtesy of TownHall
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1233
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 11:58 am
And one more notion which ought to have been included...

Protestations against "materialism" as voiced by Kristol, Himmelfarb, Bennett, Bork and others in the movement strike me as particularly odd. We could, of course, just point to Bennett's laying out a million or two gambling in Vegas (Vegas! for fukk sakes!). But more importantly, because of their uncritical acceptance of deregulation of commercial enterprise (where sex isn't involved, of course) and their political affiliations with business.

Having these guys speak against materialism is like Bush/Cheney's constant derogation of politicians. You want to just slap the fukks.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 12:58 pm
blatham wrote:

It isn't at all difficult to conclude, and it seems utterly foolish not to conclude, that the neoconservative find ID appealing....

Well, if it's as easy as you say, then prove it. I'm a neoconservative and I have believed in evolution all of my life. ID is is superstitious nonsense.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 01:16 pm
mark
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 01:35 pm
There was a series of programmes on the BBC recently about neo conservatives. For the good of social cohesion the individual should look inward to a God of moral conscience who will reward or punish, and outwards to the ever present enemy who must be resisted. And if neither God nor the Enemy actually exist, its necessary to invent them. Producer was Peter Taylor I think. He was quite explicit in saying the neo cons and al qaeda need each other.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 01:38 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
blatham wrote:

It isn't at all difficult to conclude, and it seems utterly foolish not to conclude, that the neoconservative find ID appealing....

Well, if it's as easy as you say, then prove it. I'm a neoconservative and I have believed in evolution all of my life. ID is is superstitious nonsense.


brandon

Please refer to the initial readings which start up this thread.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 01:39 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
There was a series of programmes on the BBC recently about neo conservatives. For the good of social cohesion the individual should look inward to a God of moral conscience who will reward or punish, and outwards to the ever present enemy who must be resisted. And if neither God nor the Enemy actually exist, its necessary to invent them. Producer was Peter Taylor I think. He was quite explicit in saying the neo cons and al qaeda need each other.


Now, there we go. This was film rather than radio?
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 01:41 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
There was a series of programmes on the BBC recently about neo conservatives. For the good of social cohesion the individual should look inward to a God of moral conscience who will reward or punish, and outwards to the ever present enemy who must be resisted. And if neither God nor the Enemy actually exist, its necessary to invent them. Producer was Peter Taylor I think. He was quite explicit in saying the neo cons and al qaeda need each other.


Hm, Peter Taylor, huh?

You mean, "The New Al Qaeda"?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 01:54 pm
steve

This look like it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_comments_machiavelli.shtml

Pity, not still available.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 02:22 pm
No got it wrong it was Adam Curtis who produced "The Power of Nightmares" on the neocons.

http//www.looksmartbusinesstravel.com/p/articles/mi_m0FQP/is_4751_134/ai_n14917916

Peter Taylor did "the new al Qaeda"

sorry link doesnt work. google for power of nightmares curtis
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2005 02:44 pm
Thanks steve

I like this Curtis fellow. The link I'm including contains answers given by Curtis to folks writing in who had seen the show. At the very end, he recommends for further reading a number of books, including two books I keep yelling about.
Quote:

"And for the weirdness of the 1990s:

Blinded by the Right - David Brock

The Gang of Five - The Leaders at the Centre of the Conservative Ascendancy - Nina Easton"



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/4202741.stm
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 06:40 am
Goodness. Look what turns up in a column on Salon today...


Quote:
The most important political documentary of the decade suggests that the "war on terrorism" is a dark delusion -- and there's no such thing as al-Qaida.

By Andrew O'Hehir

Dec. 8, 2005 | At some point in the weeks after 9/11, I was on the phone with my mother, who lives in California. Like most other New Yorkers, I had been through a literally life-changing experience of shock and mourning, but my level of cynicism about our beloved country and its leadership (along with pretty much everything else) was gradually returning to normal. Even so, my mother surprised me. She's a former left-wing labor organizer and onetime member of the Communist Party USA, admittedly, but these days she's more like a liberal Democrat (if they still exist) than anything else. The phrase "war on terrorism" came up in our conversation, and she snorted. "Yeah," she said, dripping derision. "What war? And what terrorism?"

Well, I thought she was speaking much too broadly at the time, but I'm less sure about that now. After seeing Adam Curtis' explosive three-part BBC film debunking the entire post-2001 terrorism scare, "The Power of Nightmares," in fact, I'm not too sure about anything. Curtis' headline-grabbing claims are certainly explosive -- he suggests that political power in the so-called Western democracies now depends on promulgating dark fantasies completely unsupported by reality, and that there is pretty much no such thing as al-Qaida. I don't entirely agree with his apparent political position, and wherever you stand on the continuum, you probably won't either. But it strikes me that "The Power of Nightmares" is the most important political documentary of this decade, and perhaps of my lifetime.

There are holes you can poke in pieces of Curtis' argument, and in the end his film may become the very thing it's dissecting, that is, a totalizing critique of the collapse of Western civilization. But this is the movie (or should be) that will make both Michael Moore and Judy Miller sit bolt upright, clap themselves on the forehead and proclaim, "Now I get it!" As one letter-writer to the BBC's Web site has put it, Curtis is like Morpheus, offering us the little red pill that will set us free from the lies, half-truths and distortions of the last five (or 50) years.


But as those twist-tie red-white-and-blue bumper stickers remind us, freedom isn't free. "The Power of Nightmares" is an important film, but it's going to take some hard work and diligent consumer activism before anyone outside New York gets to see it. DVD release may happen eventually, although Curtis uses so much archival footage and period music that the legal clearances will be a nightmare, ha ha. And as for broadcast on American television, I'm told that will happen, let's see, approximately 5,000 years after pigs first begin to fly across the frozen wastelands of hell. It's probably illegal not just to watch, but also to read about or think about. You and I are both committing treason right now.

Now that we're free, what else do we do? I know -- let's watch some intense and gut-wrenching motion pictures! The kind of stuff our friends think we're weird for liking! We'll also learn this week why you should never bring a vampire cannibal girl from H.P. Lovecraft's universe home to your Tokyo apartment, and explore how, for one veteran of Peru's civil war trying to return to civilian life, the fighting never stops.

Next page: Breathtaking, connect-the-dots, cultural-historical analysis
read full column
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 06:51 am
Oh yeah, the Power of Nightmares. There's some transcripts for that show out there somewhere...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

This is the one I found on Google.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 06:57 am
NOTE

This documentary is playing tomorrow night in New York at Cinema Villiage, 22 E 12th St. at
1:20 P
4:45 P
8:15 P
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 07:01 am
Oops, in that case, I shouldn't have posted a link to the transcript filled with spoilers.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 09:26 am
No problem. I'm going to see the documentary tomorrow. I'll report back.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 03:13 pm
Do please give us your thoughts on the Power of Nightmares Bernie

I taped a couple of the episodes but The Great Eraser of All Human Endeavour seems to have had his evil way.
0 Replies
 
 

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