The arguments of God's nonexistence

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:
Can you, Implicator, provide verses from the Bible that will illustrate your point better? I believe that you are assuming all this if you don't show any evidece. I did show physical evidence (literal words from the Bible) that defines God as cruel and sadist. You can argue all you want, but if you don't show me evidence, I won't take your argument as valid. Simple as that.

What you showed were words that demonstrates that God takes lives.

What you did not demonstrate was any passage that said God killed simply for a pleasure derived from killing (the definition of sadism.)

I

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Implicator, I showed you verses that illustrate that God can kill. I don't have to show you words that God enjoys killing. You must consider reason if you want to find out the objective of any proposition. Do you think that the writers who wrote the Bible would openly say (in words) that God enjoys killing, period? It doesn't take a detective to figure it out.
Why if I did all those killings, those in the Bible, (and I'm not God) don't you think I would be consired sadist? Why can't God be called sadist? Is God higher than any definition of man? I don't think so. God is protraited as a killing machine, no control. He's God, for God's sake!! He can prevent the killing of children, men, and women. And the Bible also says that God sees us as equals. That's another contradiction. Historically, God liked certain people more than others. This is madness. So many contradictions. I don't think you would understand this, since you are not a rational man (by definition.) And you can quote me on that.

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To Implicator:

(1) Why wasn't Cain obedient to God? Was it that he didn't sacrifice animals and offered them to God? HMMM.

(2) How do you know that God didn't enjoy the killings of animals in His name? What are the purpose of sacrifices? I'd like to know.

(3) Well, animal sacrifices were used to please God back then. He doesn't like animal sacrifices any more? Why can't I please God by offering the blood of a dead sheep?

God did not murder anyone? WOW!!! you are truly something. Who did God murder then, characters of our imaginations? And why can't I call the animal "poor." Do animals know what's happening in the human-God realm? They have no clue. If you refute this, that means that you don't know that animals have no reasoning.

Animals don't feel any pain? Is it ok to murder an animal and not call that action "murder"? You are telling me [here] that animals don't suffer, since they are not moral creatures.

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Implicator, I showed you verses that illustrate that God can kill. I don't have to show you words that God enjoys killing.

To demonstrate that God is a sadist, you must show that he kills just for the sake of enjoying the kill. You can do this either by finding scripture that explicitly states this, or by showing that there is no other possible reason than pure enjoyment. If you do not do either of these, then you have not shown that God is a sadist. You may believe he is one, but others believe he is not. Understanding the difference between the two is important if you want to be a rational thinker.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

You must consider reason if you want to find out the objective of any proposition.

I am reasoning this through, Jason - it is you who have a preconceived idea of what just has to be the motive God has for killing. You see, motive is important to this conversation if you want to establish God as a sadist, as sadism is determined by motive.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Do you think that the writers who wrote the Bible would openly say (in words) that God enjoys killing, period? It doesn't take a detective to figure it out.

What you have going here is an argument much like the following:

- Pete: Johnny is an alcoholic
- George: But he denies being an alcoholic
- Pete: See! Alcoholics always deny they have a drinking problem!

In short, your theory of God being a sadist is non-falsifiable.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Why if I did all those killings, those in the Bible, (and I'm not God) don't you think I would be consired sadist?

You may be considered by some to be such, but in order to know whether you are a sadist I would need to establish your motive.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Why can't God be called sadist?

Call him anything you want, but if you want to prove him to be a sadist then you must establish motive.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Is God higher than any definition of man? I don't think so.

What makes you think he isn't higher than any definition of man?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

God is protraited as a killing machine, no control.

That's your perception, one that is not shared by many other people.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

He's God, for God's sake!! He can prevent the killing of children, men, and women.

So what if he can prevent it?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

And the Bible also says that God sees us as equals. That's another contradiction.

Chapter and verse (in context), please.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Historically, God liked certain people more than others.

And?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

This is madness. So many contradictions.

Apparent contradictions based on your interpretation of the Bible.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I don't think you would understand this, since you are not a rational man (by definition.) And you can quote me on that.

I have no problem quoting you, just as I have no problem pointing out where you fall short in making your case.

I

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

(1) Why wasn't Cain obedient to God? Was it that he didn't sacrifice animals and offered them to God? HMMM.

Yes, I believe that's what I said - he was not obedient in the type of offering he prepared.

HMMM.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

2) How do you know that God didn't enjoy the killings of animals in His name? What are the purpose of sacrifices? I'd like to know.

The way I know anything at all about God - I read the Bible. There is nothing there that says he enjoys killing for killing's sake, either explicitly or implicitly.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

(3) Well, animal sacrifices were used to please God back then. He doesn't like animal sacrifices any more? Why can't I please God by offering the blood of a dead sheep?

If you would read the Bible you would find that God no longer demands sacrifice, as Jesus has provided the last and fully sufficient sacrifice. To offer God sacrifice now would be to demean what his son has done for you - that's why you wouldn't be able to please him with the sacrifice you suggest.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

God did not murder anyone? WOW!!! you are truly something. Who did God murder then, characters of our imaginations?

Look up the definition of murder, and then reconsider your question.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

And why can't I call the animal "poor." Do animals know what's happening in the human-God realm? They have no clue. If you refute this, that means that you don't know that animals have no reasoning.

The way in which you used the term "poor" implied that they do know what is going on, no? If they don't, why would you call them "poor" (as if they are suffering and know it)?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Animals don't feel any pain? Is it ok to murder an animal and not call that action "murder"? You are telling me [here] that animals don't suffer, since they are not moral creatures.

See my suggestion above about the definition of murder.

I

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Answer me a question, Implicator. Are you a rational man?

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Answer me a question, Implicator. Are you a rational man?

Yes, I consider myself to be rational, Jason.

I

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Let's make this more interesting.

What you have going here is an argument much like the following:

- Pete: Johnny is an alcoholic because I can smell alcohol on him, and he always wears the same clothes for more than two days.
- George: But he denies being an alcoholic ( even thought his wife says he's an alcoholic and threatens him to divorce him.)
- Pete: See! Some alcoholics always deny they have a drinking problem when they are confronted with one gallon-bottle of Johnny Walker in their hands!

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Let's make this more interesting.

What you have going here is an argument much like the following:

- Pete: Johnny is an alcoholic because I can smell alcohol on him, and he always wears the same clothes for more than two days.
- George: But he denies being an alcoholic ( even thought his wife says he's an alcoholic and threatens him to divorce him.)
- Pete: See! Some alcoholics always deny they have a drinking problem when they are confronted with one gallon-bottle of Johnny Walker in their hands!

Not that interesting, actually.

The question is not whether God kills, or even whether God seems to make a habit of killing - your proposition is that he kills specifically for the thrill of it.

I'm still waiting for any support of that notion.

I

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And I see you're still waiting....

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Is God evil? If God is truly evil, then there is a contradiction of what religious entities define Him as the good God and just. For example...

Why would God accept Abel's animal sacrifices and rejected Cain's fruits and vegetables. Did God like Abel's offerings because of the grusome display of blood and agony of the animals? If this is true, then God is sadist, which means that He enjoys pain and suffering from others. Another question arises: if I sacrify animals (now) in His name, would He like me more than if I didn't?

Genesis 4:3 -- And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Genesis --4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Genesis --4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

We have three verses in a row. These three verses show how Abel and Cain pay their respects to God in different manners. Each one do their own offering to God. But these verses put more emphasis on their rituals, which differentiate them both in the eyes of God (if you can't see it, read it again and again). Abel offered God animal sacrifices while Cain offered Him fruits and vegetables. The last verse (genesis 4:5) articulates it very well, that because of Cain's OFFERING, he couldn not receive God's respect. There isn't a lot of reading comprehension involved here to understand that.
Do you want me to say that God (after Abel sacrified animals in His name) was able to put on robe, get in bed, and light up a Cuban cigar so He could enjoy Abel's rituals? Is that what you want me to say? The Bible doesn't say that. But if it did, I would've been glad to show it to you.

Exodus 11:5 -- And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt SHALL DIE, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Exodus --11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.

Exodus 9:19 -- Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle, and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die.

Get the definition of "premeditation" before everything else. Do you see the first verse? God says "And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt SHALL DIE." Can you see the last two words "Shall die" mean that the list of people God mentions will die by his warth. [Now] get the definition of "murder."Isn't God talking with Moses about all these? So, isn't God premeditating a mass murder? Can't you see that? And the second verse reads that there will be cries while those people are dying (those people are suffering). Why is it necessary for those people to suffer? I don't know why the animals should be put to death as well. Are the animals a threat to God? Do animals suffer?

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I'm the other one wrote:

And I see you're still waiting....

Patience is a virtue, sweetheart.

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More "just" laws from God.

If I cursed my mother and father, then I must be put to death?

exodus 21:15-- And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death

exodus 21:17-- And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Isn't this too extreme? Murder people because they went to Mount Sinai?

exodus 19:12-- And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:.

exodus 19:13 -- There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

How can it be? Isn't this a very (extremely) high price to pay? I read it and I can't believe my eyes.

exodus 20:13-- If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

exodus --20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

exodus--20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them

Numbers 3:4-- And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father

Bonus.

Do we have free will?

Deuteronomy 2:30-- But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.

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Quote:

Of a far more interesting character to my mind, is to know why god has one "d," but goddess has two . . .

Bwaaaaaaaaaaahahaha! That's a good one setanta! Surprised

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If you ask the earth to show you a representation of god such as a face in nature you will eventually see it.

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hephzibah wrote:

Quote:
Of a far more interesting character to my mind, is to know why god has one "d," but goddess has two . . .

Bwaaaaaaaaaaahahaha! That's a good one setanta!

In the long lost distant memory, a neuron fires. Its deja vu all over again...Goddesses, being well endowed, wear double D sized brassieres.

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whooooooooah there steve... Don't ya think that's a might bit presumptuous??? How many goddess' have you seen in your life time???

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Well there was this time as a student. Well I worshipped there quite regularly. But then she started with some other guy called Jupe or Zeus or something, anyway it didnt work out.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Well there was this time as a student. Well I worshipped there quite regularly. But then she started with some other guy called Jupe or Zeus or something, anyway it didnt work out.

hardy har har... you're quite the comedian steve! Razz

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yeah you should hear my jokes. People cry.

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The arguments of God's nonexistence

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