The arguments of God's nonexistence

You are claiming God is a sadist ... you pass off the Bible as if it shows that he is - but it doesn't, and that is why your claims that you circulate on this board are fraudulant.




I don't need to ... all I need to do is rebut your claim that he is, which I have done.




You are an imposer.

I

Wilso,

Well, hmmm.... This answer comes from the viewpoint of a "theist" as you would say...

Your question is valid. Why should you have to prove something that is neither seen nor heard doesn't exist? But why should we have to prove He does? LOL.... ok sorry, couldn't help myself there...

Moving on I would like to address the real meat of your post....

The fact of the matter is, at least to me, that there really is no way to prove that God does or doesn't exist. I believe in God. I have had experiences in my life that have caused me to believe in Him. However, you were not there to witness the 6 years or so it took for me to be convinced of God through my experiences. You did not see what I was like before. You did not see the things that happened in my life. You did not watch me change from what I was to what I am now.

So how could you possibly conceive of my experience as being anything more than mere foolishness having not been there and lived through it with me? For me to assert to you that you should believe just because of what I say would be pure foolishness on my part. That is ridiculous. Who am I? (well don't answer that, because I already know that you think that I'm a billion to one accident...)

bwaaaaa hahaha!

You're not a billion to one accident; you're a (max) about a 50 million to one accident; it depends greatly on the age of your father and how 'healthy' he was at the time he had sex with your ma.

Thanks for clarifying that CI! Whew....

I do think Christianity in the end is too flawed for me to accept as either truth or life philosophy. To name a few arguments of the top of my head:

1. Doctrine of the Trinity
I don't get the 3=1 idea.
2. Genesis
Next to the obvious impossibility of a global Flood give or take Four thousand years, the story of the Garden of Eve is one succesion of plot-holes to me.
3. The Old & New Testament
The God's presented in both are very different from each other.
4. Plan for Salvation
If God wanted everyone to be saved, he should have let people know beyond doubt what to do.
5. Jesus' sacrifice
What did he lose in the end? Nothing. And the process of forgiving others by punishing something else does not make sense to me.
6. Other religions
Other religious people are all equally convinced of, dedicated to, and confirmed in their own beliefs. It is impossible to tell which one is right and who are wrong, or even make a safe assumption. What religion someone chooses is beyond denial most determined by the environment some one is born in.
7. Free Will arguments
While I do believe we have Free Will, I think it doesn't go as far as people often believe. People tend to underestimate how much power situations have over us. I am somewhere between Free Will and Predeterminism on the subject of choose.
8. Heaven & Hell
Both seem to me horrible places void of all meaning, purpose and joy.
9. The Problem of Pain
There is more pain in the world then an omnipotent and caring God can be excused from.
10. Apologists
I've looked into some christian apologists and writers like Craig, CS Lewis, Alcorn, Hancock, Schuller, and other people where I live who others wouldn't know. Not one has convinced me. After a while, you feel like you can pinch right through their flawed anologues and psychological tricks.
11. Searching for God
Like most religions, christianity teaches you to look for God. Now this makes sense, but to me it also means you can just make it happen by sheer will power. If you keep hoping and praying and looking for Jesus, you're gonna find it sooner or later. That doesn't mean he actually exists.[/b]
12. Eschatology
Despite the fact that a climatic end-battle sounds a little to human for me (and not fit for a omnipotent being), the age-old religious idea that the world will 'soon' end is another argument for it's fallacy.
13. Science and Psychology
I think there's a scientific or psychological explanation for any event or phenomenon that it attributed to a higher power.

You'd be surprised how much trivia still lingers in my grey stuff even at my age.

aktorist tell me... what in this life is NOT flawed in some way shape or form?

Trivia huh? I was just fixin to ask you how you knew that! LOL

Flawed as in contradictory.

You know modus tollens?

(p=>q)/\-q
Therefore, -p

Suppose p=>(q/\-q)
You then automatically know -p. I forgot the name of that argument.

aktorist, WELCOME TO A2K. Your summary of arguments against christianity is very good.

I find that "searching for god" is a response from the individual's brain that convinces them about some omnipotent god - and whola, a god appears in the psyche. I think it's something akin to eating chocolate; it's a feel good experience.

Your argument for Jesus' sacrifice is somewhat similar to mine, but I question why god would need any sacrifice to appease the sins of all humans. It seems like a sacrifice to himself that he later reneges by bringing him back to life. What kind of sacrifice is that?

The burden of proof rests on one who asserts something is true. If something is not true, it is then by default false. A person claiming something is false has no burden of proof to uphold, the person stating something is true must show that their assertion is incorrect.

Anyhow, the reason I think Christianity, or for that matter, any particular specific religious philosophy or belief is illogical, is that there are many out there, and many different places where the word of what ever deity/deities really do exist could have been corrupted or falsified. Certainly, there are many logical arguments against atheism (Note: Anslems Ontological argument is not one of them ), but nothing to suggest that any of specific belief is correct.

For instance, Christianity, since that's what's being argued. Off the top of my head, there are...four possible places where the word of god could have been falsified.

1.) Interpretation. Simply put, there IS room for interpretation in the bible. Did god really reverse the rules for eating "unclean" foods, or was that one guy just special? Many places in the Bible are up to interpretation, so these things are up for interpretation. (Which is how you can have many people following the same book as though it was the word of God, and still have wars over it).

2.) Translation. Yes, I know, it's a tired example, but it's true. Someone could have written something incorrectly when they were translating it from Hebrew to whatever. Not only that, but someone could have written something slightly incorrectly when they were copying it from one book to another. It's a very old religion, so that leaves alot of room for error. With that much room for error, it's certainly logical to still follow the faith, but not to say you're 100% certain.

3.) Recording. Who heard the word of God? Who wrote it down? People. Fallable people, imperfect people. Who knows whether God really said pigs were unclean, or that homosexuals were sinners? Not only could someone have misheard, or copied it incorrectly, but a homophobe, or someone with a pork allergy could have added that little bit in there. See what I said for translation, there's no way you can logically say you're 100% certain that Christianity is correct.

4.) God could have lied. Maybe a supreme being does exist. How do we know the one that came to earth was telling the truth? It could have been an evil being, tricking us. There's no way to tell that any being who claims to be divine is telling the truth. It's not logical to assume that you think one religion is true when there's no logical way to tell that a) the deity really said what you believe b) that the deity wasn't lying, or c) that a deity even exists!

CI... I gotta ask... how does the age of my father and how healthy he was have anything to do with me being a 50 million to one accident?

I should add that I have a tremendous respect for Jesus (pbuh) as a man, but can't see him as being both being deity incarnate + praying to a deity.

Well, He is the Son of God. He is the Savior.

Do you have any proof of that?
It's not historically acceptable.

Read the Bible. It's in there. I also have faith that it is true. I do not require historical or scientific proof.

The sperm count of men are the highest sometime before age 20, and decreases with advancing age. By about 35, the sperms are much less healthy. The health of the father determines the ability of sperms to also be healthy. That's the reason why we hear of much older men fathering a child. Drinking can damage sperms, so it's a good idea to stay away from heavy drinking if you're working to have a child.

Jesus isn't historically proven, and that I think there's a lot of evidence that stories of him were written to start a rebellion against the state-as-god religions at the time- and then, of course, the state picked up the religion as it's own, dropped most of the mystic/gnostic slant it had, and used it to control the masses.



You do if you want it to be true. Faith has no link to reality. I have faith that 1+1=3. Such does not make it true.

Likewise, your faith does not make it true.

Or say for example that faith is like daydreaming; like a superstition.

And if you have a lack of faith that doesn't make it not true. Faith in God is not about proof. I do not require proof. You might. Others might. That's okay for you. I don't require it.