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How would you feel about working till you're 70 years old?

 
 
msolga
 
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 06:32 pm
That's what's being suggested here in this newspaper piece from Oz. But I guess you could use the same arguments in just about any "developed" country right now. Seems that our superannuation entitlements & savings just aren't going to cover the costs of "oldies" living longer, so why not expect them to work longer?

How do you feel about that?

Feel up to it?

Does this seem a fair solution to the situation to you?

The high cost of those final days in the sun
By Michael Duffy
November 19, 2005/SMH

T'S time to lift the retirement age to 70. The age of 65 for men was set in 1908, the idea being you'd have a while in the sun before (ideally) being relieved of all worldly cares by pneumonia, the old person's friend. But now we live at least 10 years longer: the average life expectancy for baby boomers is about 84.4 years for men and 88.8 for women. And yet the pension age for men hasn't changed.

This means the average man, who retires at about 61, will have more than two decades of leisure. For much of that time, he'll be healthy and active. And quite often bored.

The situation for women is, if anything, worse. Not only do they live longer, they retire earlier. Their pension age, which used to be 60, is gradually being increased: it is just under 63, and will reach the men's level of 65 in 2014. This is commendable, if somewhat slow: different pension ages are among the worst examples of institutionalised sexism in Australia.

The problem is not just how to fill in two decades of free time at the end of one's life, but how to afford it. Several economists have told me they believe raising the retirement age could be the single most important financial reform we could have, although most add: "No government would ever do it." ... <cont>

http://smh.com.au/news/opinion/the-high-cost-of-those-final-days-in-the-sun/2005/11/18/1132016984646.html
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 06:34 pm
I AM working til I'm 70. The SS reforms have graciously mandated it.
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CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 06:39 pm
Looking at my retirement account, I probably work until
I am 80 http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/sadsmiley02.gif
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 06:44 pm
Given my own financial circumstances, I reckon I'll probably HAVE to keep working (to some degree) to finance myself. Smile To a point I don't really mind that (Who wants to just vegetate in the sun?), so long as it's not imposed on me. That it's not the only way to live decently. If some folk aren't able to continue working then a reasonable pension should be available to them. We've always done that through our taxes, so why not continue to? I get really tired of these constant arguments that the baby boomers are going to break the bank in their old age. Baby boomers have paid their taxes all their working lives, too, the same as previous generations. The problem is that there's just more of them & their old age will be a financial challenge to the state.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 06:54 pm
But hey, it's one thing to expect older folk to work longer, but quite another to overcome the discrimination that older workers often face when applying for jobs. These days it appears that 40 is considered "old" in many fields of employment!
So my concern is, if working longer is going to become an expectation (as a result of a possible increase in the retirement age &, I assume, restrictions on available pensions) then there will have to be a big shift in employer's attitudes to older employees.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 06:55 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
I AM working til I'm 70. The SS reforms have graciously mandated it.


I'd be interested to know a bit more about that, edgar, if you have a minute.
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glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 06:55 pm
I retired early because of an ailment that I thought would never get better. It took about 10 years, and just when I thought I would live the rest of my life like that, the damn thing went away. I now work several days a week at my old place, stay pretty active with my non-profits and hope I can stay alert and engaged for many more years.

What I have a problem with, is that sweeping assumption that everyone will be able to work until they are 70. Check the obits, a lot of people die way long before they are even eligible to collect SS. And since it's not a savings account, the funds the poor dead souls contributed will not be passed along to family. I am not suggesting they should go back to anybody, because it is simply an insurance policy for retirement. You don't get back your car premiums if you die without having an accident. I think we need a more realistic view of retirement and how long a person can work. Nobody retires at 30 unless they struck it rich or got terribly sick.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:17 pm
msolga
Three or four times a year, the SS sends me a statement about my Social Security account. It states that at age 62 I could have taken my benefits at a greatly reduced amount. If I did that and took a job, they would penalize me by taking a huige chunk of my earnings.
At 62 years, 10 months, it states I can take a geater amount and earn all the money I can without the great penalty.
At 70 years I can collect the full amount.
This isn't Googled off a website, it comes directly from the government.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:22 pm
I am hoping to move to part time work at 75.


If I don't, having, I believe, just enough super to prevent me from getting the pension, and hence looking forward to a sub pension income, in effect, cos I will miss out on all the pensioner discounts, it will be the only way to avoid genteel starvation and the streets.



However, IF I still have my faculties and can do the job, I have no problem with part time work, I think, when I am old.


But I would kind of like it to be on my terms....mebbe private practice?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:31 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
msolga
Three or four times a year, the SS sends me a statement about my Social Security account. It states that at age 62 I could have taken my benefits at a greatly reduced amount. If I did that and took a job, they would penalize me by taking a huige chunk of my earnings.
At 62 years, 10 months, it states I can take a geater amount and earn all the money I can without the great penalty.
At 70 years I can collect the full amount.
This isn't Googled off a website, it comes directly from the government.


Thanks for your response, edgar. I'm always interested to know what the deal in the US is on these matters, because our own government seems hellbent on replicating the toughest aspects of your system here (Oz). No doubt they'll follow suit! Evil or Very Mad That's retirement at 70 by stealth! The "official" retirement age would be 60 or 65, then?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:35 pm
Where I put 62, ten months, substitute 65 years, ten months. My mistake.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:41 pm
dlowan wrote:
... IF I still have my faculties and can do the job, I have no problem with part time work, I think, when I am old.


That would be my ideal, too, Deb, to continue work part time, for as long as I'm able to. Not just for financial reasons, but because I enjoy the stimulous of work. But I think our governments (both state & federal) are going to have to do some serious thinking about making the option of part time work far more possible, for more people. ... AND also to encourage employers to retain older workers. It's one thing to desire the option of do-able, part time work, but quite another for many workers to find it!
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:42 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
Where I put 62, ten months, substitute 65 years, ten months. My mistake.


Ah, I see.
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colorbook
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:48 pm
CalamityJane wrote:
Looking at my retirement account, I probably work until
I am 80 http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/sadsmiley02.gif


Yeah me too...if I live that long Shocked
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:52 pm
colorbook wrote:
CalamityJane wrote:
Looking at my retirement account, I probably work until
I am 80 http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/sadsmiley02.gif


Yeah me too...if I live that long Shocked


There is THAT, too! :wink:
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:54 pm
I find the "bored" comment in the initial post puzzling.

hamburger retired just over 20 years ago - at age 55. he and mrs. hamburger are as busy, if not busier, now than they were before he retired. best of all, because they do have the time to exercise more - and appear to have less stress - they're fitter than they were in their 50's. I'm hoping for a similar result.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:54 pm
It varies somewhat by age group, msolga. I could take the most marginal benefit at age 62, and slightly less marginal "full retirement" at age 66.

You're quite right, of course. Much past forty, you are either senile, to sickly for their health insurance, or god forbid, ready to drop dead on company time. I think we're going to see a big gap open up between the age of becoming unemployable, and the age of retirement. Not that employers are permitted to discriminate by age till you reach 70, of course.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 08:05 pm
ehBeth wrote:
I find the "bored" comment in the initial post puzzling.

hamburger retired just over 20 years ago - at age 55. he and mrs. hamburger are as busy, if not busier, now than they were before he retired. best of all, because they do have the time to exercise more - and appear to have less stress - they're fitter than they were in their 50's. I'm hoping for a similar result.


I think the "bored" comment was written by someone with enough $$$ stashed away not to have to worry about surviving a potentially impoverished old age, ehBeth! Making ends meet in old age will surely curb tendencies toward boredom in many of us! :wink:

As for Mr & Mrs Hamburger: Way to go! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 08:13 pm
working to age 75 ?
i'd say it depends a lot on the kind of work you are doing. if you are working in the "saltmines" you probably won't last until you are 75, if you are a politician, it probably won't put much of a strain on you.
last week a visiting german professor (at queen's university) spoke about "germany after the election". he mentioned that the retirement age in germany was to be lifted to age 67 - i think it's already been passed in parliament -, but he said that the problem is, that young people already have problems finding a job. so on the one hand we want people to work longer, but also need work spaces for the young - a bit of a dilemma.

i was lucky to be able to quit the rat race rather early. the company offered me early retirement at age 55, and while i enjoyed my work, i felt that this was a great opportunity. worked part-time for a few more years and got used to retirement without any problem. i remember several people telling me that i absolutely must continue working - including my former boss, who had retired at age 65.
mrs h and i discussed what to do, how to adapt our lifestyle ... and i sure have not regretted once leaving the workforce early(and neither has mrs h, as she has told me many times). had i worked until 65, i would have had a somewhat better pension, but i also would have given up ten years of my "leisure time".
we are sometimes amazed how our life has improved since my retirement - not that it was bad before -, going swimming five mornings a week, having time to visit friends, going for walks along lake ontario, enjoying some nice off-season vacations ... working until 75 ? no, not this boy ! hbg
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 08:15 pm
roger wrote:
It varies somewhat by age group, msolga. I could take the most marginal benefit at age 62, and slightly less marginal "full retirement" at age 66.

You're quite right, of course. Much past forty, you are either senile, to sickly for their health insurance, or god forbid, ready to drop dead on company time. I think we're going to see a big gap open up between the age of becoming unemployable, and the age of retirement. Not that employers are permitted to discriminate by age till you reach 70, of course.


Thanks for that, roger. Very interesting indeed.

Well, unless there's a stupendous baby boom tomorrow, or a huge influx of skilled migrants from other countries (to the detriment of the countries they come from), some employers are just going to have to adjust in areas of skill shortages. I'm sure, though, they'll be looking at ways of getting governments to share the "risk" of employing these risky older folk! :wink:
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