Riots in France

I left Germany five days ago and thus didn't learn that we got a female president.

The media here didn't report anything about Koehler"s death - and besides, it takes a bit longer to elect a new one.

So I suppose, you were mixing up persons and talked about our chancellor, who indeeed is the female leader of a Social-Democratic/Christian Social Union/Christian Democratic (coalition) government.

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..thought you might spot that Walter Laughing

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Chancellor? My error. I thought that Germany, so short of people because of its reproduction rate had to draft people to cover more than one office at a time.

My error!!!

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Actually, you are correct.

We will shortly leave democracy and go back to dictotorship with just one person for all political posts.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Unfortunately the leftist, Gaulists of France have commandeered the world's impression of the French.

Who now: the leftists or the Gaulists?
Or do you mean both?

And how could two political parties do that? I don't get my opinion about people for some political parties in their country.

This is what I definately not would call idiotic but a show of complete uneducation., I think. (At least, I would never define USAmericans just by the politics of the Democrats or Republicans.)

From wikipedia:

Quote:
The "Gaullists" as a political group used to refer to the Union des Démocrates pour la République.

Since de Gaulle's death, and the break-up of the UDR, the exact meaning of Gaullism is somewhat unclear. In 1980s-1990s usage, "Gaullism" referred to the Rassemblement pour la République (now integrated into the Union pour un Mouvement Populaire), Jacques Chirac's center-right party. Chirac has, in the past, adopted both dirigiste and laissez-faire approaches to economics; he now has a pro-European (pro-European Union) stance after famously denouncing europeanism in the Call of Cochin. For these reasons, some on the right, such as Charles Pasqua, denounce Chirac and his party as not being "true Gaullists".

List of political parties in France

Well Walter I suppose France (and possibly Germany) is one of the few places in the world where there is no overlap in political movements, and therefore there can not possibly be a Leftist Gaullist: An extremely nationalistic socialist.

Keep in mind Walt that I am an American, and as you Thomas and Nimh have so often tried to school me, the Left in America is in step with the Right in the rest of the world. Is it, therefore, so surprising that I may view what is considered "right of center" to the French as well to the Left?

"And how could two political parties do that? I don't get my opinion about people for some political parties in their country."

Are you kidding? How could political parties in a country shape the image of their nation within the minds of the rest of the world? Surely you are just being ironic in that sassy European way of yours.

Let's stipulate for all time that you Walter actually are the paragon of rational thought you believe yourself to be. Surely you don't believe that the rest of the world measures up to your powers of reasoning?

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Francis wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Instead, it tells me that French people (if your assertion is true) are idiots.

I rest my case, at least towards such assertions, which, as Walter pointed out, are full of contradictions and ignorance..

And your case is what?

"French people don't bother about contradictions and are usually good at irony..."

Perhaps in France these are the hallmarks of a superior race of men, but elsewhere intelligent people pay particular attention to contradictions, and irony constitutes a stylish pose to assume but not of much value in pushing forward.

Fortunately for France, I doubt that your glib characterization of your fellow citizens is really accurate.

Unfortunately for France, your characterization as applied to the leaders (political and intellectual) in France is spot on.

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Could it be, Finn, that Walter is doing his country a service by being a paragon of rational thought. With so few people being born, some one has to take up the slack. Could it be that the Testosterone levels are down in Germany?

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Perhaps in France these are the hallmarks of a superior race of men, but elsewhere intelligent people pay particular attention to contradictions, and irony constitutes a stylish pose to assume but not of much value in pushing forward.

And "elsewhere" meaning your particular corner of the USA?

And "pushing forward" meaning taking irresponsible decisions?

And finding that BernardR comment about Testosterone level is a manly thing?

Jeeezz!

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I am sorry, Francis. My comment about Testosterone was based on the fact that Germany is now, according to news reports. close to ZPG. In as much as I am not aware of any restrictions on family size in Germany as is done in China, I felt that a natural cause might be pin pointed.

Do you have an explanation of the ZPG situation in Germany, Francis? I would be happy if you would disabuse me. I may have selected the wrong cause.

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Well Walter I suppose France (and possibly Germany) is one of the few places in the world where there is no overlap in political movements, and therefore there can not possibly be a Leftist Gaullist

Well, finding one is about as likely as finding a "Leftist Republican". You mean to say that if any of us would speak of Leftist Republicans as if it were a logical thing, you would not frown or disagree?

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BernardR wrote:

Could it be that the Testosterone levels are down in Germany?

There is nothing to indicate that testosterone levels are low in Germany.

The first signs to look for would be for the male population to have a penchant for driving about in four wheel drive gas guzzlers, and to insist on their right to possess a firearm.

When the level drops really low, they seem to adopt some kind of obsession with tax cuts, insist that capital punishment remains legal and lose all compassion for their less fortunate neighbours. They believe everything that they are told on the news and think that the theory of evolution is total bollocks.

I haven't seen this happen in Germany yet, but I'll keep my eye on the situation, if you like.

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BernardR wrote:

I am sorry, Francis. My comment about Testosterone was based on the fact that Germany is now, according to news reports. close to ZPG. In as much as I am not aware of any restrictions on family size in Germany as is done in China, I felt that a natural cause might be pin pointed.

Do you have an explanation of the ZPG situation in Germany, Francis? I would be happy if you would disabuse me. I may have selected the wrong cause.

Such complex situations do not have an unique cause.

One can observe in the nature, how animals adjust population to specific environmental conditions; population relatively to space occupied, availability of food, absence of predators and so on.

That's also, with the obvious adjustments, how human society reacts.

Since decades we observe a decline in fertility rate among the developed countries. This decline is more or less accentuated depending on local and specific factors.

For Germany we can point out overcrowded regions, financial stress at the beginning of a marriage, the fear of losing a job or the stress for finding one, the desire to achieve a career...

The way people see these situations are stained by their local perceptions as, often, they do not travel and experience by themselves.

In addition, they are biased by their local political leaders and commitments.

If you have a moment, Bernard, take a look on this kind of documents:

Population ageing and population decline in Germany

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BernardR wrote:

I am sorry, Francis. My comment about Testosterone was based on the fact that Germany is now, according to news reports. close to ZPG. In as much as I am not aware of any restrictions on family size in Germany as is done in China, I felt that a natural cause might be pin pointed.

Do you have an explanation of the ZPG situation in Germany, Francis? I would be happy if you would disabuse me. I may have selected the wrong cause.

With every page it becomes clearer and clearer, how ignorant some Americans are. Perhaps it would be much wiser if one informs himself of other countries before posting such nonsense. BernardR, you are obviously one of the characters, Lord Ellpus describes so vividly, while seemingly only foreigners understand the true meaning of it.

However BernardR, in case your sex education class was as extensive as your knowledge of Europe, let me explain to you that the testosterone level of a man (regardless of his nationality) has nothing to do with his ability to inseminate, but everything with enjoying his libido.

Then again BernardR, you may be thinking while the United States has the highest number of teenage pregnancies of any industrial nation,
this must also be an indication of high testosterone levels, right?

Well it isn't, BernardR. It is just an indication of people lacking the knowledge of contraception, and in a country where only abstinence is taught and promoted, it is hardly a surprise.

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I believe that Francis' description of the adaptation of populations to local factors in their physical and social environments in determining their fertility (and other behaviors as well) is accurate. However, it does not address an important external factor, one that is clearly indicated in recorded history. That, of course, is the reaction of other populations in adjoining areas to the local declines that do indeed occur just as Francis has described them. History is full of stories of refined cultures that were overwhelmed by relatively cruder, but more adaptable cultures that eagerly filled the voids they created by their temporarily comfortable behaviors. It is generally the cruder neighbor who writes the next chapter of history.

Europe faces such a challenge today, and it is as yet far from clear that it will successfully overcome it. It is correct to describe European behavior in these areas as a natural adaptation to their present environment. However it is dead wrong to assume that this behavior will allow them to continue long in their presently comfortable situation. I believe this is the discomforting lesson to be learned from the recent disorders in France. Comfortable complacency and resistance to needed change are the usual historical precursors to decline and fall.

The United Strates also faces similar challenges, but I do believe that we have been a good deal more adaptable to the needed changes. This doesn't mean our future is entirely secure either, but it does mean the situation is far less urgent here. I certainly don't wish to see any bad fate overtake Europe in this or any other area. However, I would like to see some indication that Europe is beginning to make some adaptations that I believe are necessary for its continued cultural and economic health.

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Francis wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Perhaps in France these are the hallmarks of a superior race of men, but elsewhere intelligent people pay particular attention to contradictions, and irony constitutes a stylish pose to assume but not of much value in pushing forward.

And "elsewhere" meaning your particular corner of the USA?

And "pushing forward" meaning taking irresponsible decisions?

And finding that BernardR comment about Testosterone level is a manly thing?

Jeeezz!

No, "elsewhere" means anywhere other than France, and "pushing forward" means getting on with the reality of life.

Do you have any other comments?

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nimh wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Well Walter I suppose France (and possibly Germany) is one of the few places in the world where there is no overlap in political movements, and therefore there can not possibly be a Leftist Gaullist

Well, finding one is about as likely as finding a "Leftist Republican". You mean to say that if any of us would speak of Leftist Republicans as if it were a logical thing, you would not frown or disagree?

Guilliani, Bloomberg, Rockefeller, Lodge etc etc etc.... Leftist Republicans.

But you are right Walter for you are a European, and I am but a American. There cannot possibly be a French Ultra Nationalist Socialist.

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georgeob1 wrote:

It is generally the cruder neighbor who writes the next chapter of history.

Europe faces such a challenge today, and it is as yet far from clear that it will successfully overcome it.

You refer to the cruder neighbor writing the nex chapter of history as something of a natural progression. You then write about the cruder neighbor writing the nex chapter of history as something negative, something to be overcome. If it is a natural progression, then why is it negative, and something to be overcome?

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InfraBlue wrote:

You refer to the cruder neighbor writing the nex chapter of history as something of a natural progression. You then write about the cruder neighbor writing the nex chapter of history as something negative, something to be overcome. If it is a natural progression, then why is it negative, and something to be overcome?

You are reading things into my comments that I didn't say.

Whether the process is good or bad depends entirely on your point of view.

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George, I made some comments after Bernard's insidious remark correlating Testosterone levels of Germans and the decline of population.

You aknowledged and added to those comments. But then you got to your prefered topic, I mean, the difficulty of Europe to adapt to global world.

Having an inside view of the problem, I can assure you that I witnessed some signs of changes on the way..

Infrablue is nitpicking on the fringes of the topic...

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I suppose, it's better for me not to reply to some members here anymore - I getn't paid for their education.

But I must admit that after the couple of days I'm here in the USA, I found that most are better educated than some show their "knowledge" here. Even graduates from an Indian Elementary have got a btter education.

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Riots in France

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