I've posted that report below already on the "Europen Union thread".
I just do it here again, because Le Penn gets - according to that Independent report - his support a lot due to the demonstrations which were a topic here:
Quote:'New faces' lead race for French presidency
By John Lichfield in Paris
Published: 25 April 2006
The battle for the French presidency next year is developing into a two-horse race between two experienced politicians successfully posing as "new faces", Ségolène Royal and Nicolas Sarkozy.
Opinion polls suggest Mme Royal, on the centre-left, and M. Sarkozy, on the centre-right, are ahead of other likely runners in the first round of the presidential elections next April.
One dark cloud on the horizon is the resurgence of support for the leader of the xenophobic, far-right National Front, Jean-Marie Le Pen, 77. Despite his advanced age and despite the emergence of another extreme nationalist contender, M. Le Pen is attracting the support of many people angered by the suburban riots last autumn and the recent student unrest.
Judging by the early polls, however, the 2007 election should avoid the scattering of first-round votes that allowed M. Le Pen to win through to the second-round run-off four years ago. Support on the left and right is already coalescing behind two candidates who - although not officially declared - have fired the imagination of moderate voters. Both say they represent change and a fresh approach to politics. Both have been part of the political establishment in France for more than two decades.
Mme Royal, 52, the president of the Poitou-Charente region, and a former education and social affairs minister, continues to crush all other potential candidates on the left - including her partner and father of her four children, the Socialist Party leader, François Hollande.
In two polls in recent days, she has attracted just over 30 per cent of all electors, including many votes from the right and centre.
Although criticised by Socialist rivals as bland and lacking in concrete ideas, Mme Royal is now in a strong and possibly unassailable position to become the first woman to represent a large party in a French presidential election. Her fluent performances on television - and the fact that she is a woman - have allowed her to represent change but not brutal change.
On the centre-right, the early polls are equally dominated by M. Sarkozy, 51, the Interior Minister and president of the main party, the conservative Union pour un Mouvement Populaire. M. Sarkozy has gained and suffered from the humiliating retreat of the government on its "easy-hire, easy-fire" jobs contract for the young. With the collapse of credibility of his colleagues - and bitter rivals - President Jacques Chirac and the Prime Minister, Dominique de Villepin, M. Sarkozy has also risen to just over 30 per cent in recent opinion polls.
However, polls suggest Mme Royal could beat M. Sarkozy in the second round of the presidential elections next May to become the first "Madame la Presidente" in French history.
Source
Here's a round up from a weekly magazine that I get. It looks at various newspapers and gives a quick precis on what they are saying.....from "the Week", dated 15th April......
CHIRAC'S HUMILIATING DEFEAT AT THE HANDS OF STUDENTS.
"Yet again France's government has caved in to pressure from the street", said ["Le Temps (Geneva)"] . "Six weeks ago, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin introduced, with great fanfare, the CPE which would have made it far easier for employers to sack workers aged under 26 within two years of hiring them. The reform, he insisted, would help more young people to find jobs: 22% of them are unemployed, largely because labour rules are so rigid, employers are loathe to hire.
But French youth didn't see it that way: millions have taken to the streets; half the universities have been occupied by students; and country wide riots have led to 3000 arrests with hundreds of police injured. Villepin had written a letter to Julie Coudry, head of the Confederation Etudiante, asking for talks on how best to implement the CPE, but Coudry had dismissed it out of hand. Villepin knows we want the law dropped, she'd replied, so "this letter is a joke, a provocation, which if anything feeds the social tensions in our country".
A messy attempt at compromise by President Chirac two weeks ago impressed no one and on Monday he finally quashed the law, humiliating Villepin, who had made a fetish out of seeing it through".
"This is a crisis of "tsunami proportions" for Chirac", said Delphine Girard in [ "La Tribune" (Paris) ]...."A year ago the President appointed his close ally Villepin as Prime Minister, positioning him for a shot at the presidency in next years elections and in the process, sidelining his great rival, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy. But with this humiliating climbdown over the CPE, Chirac and Villepin have no authority left."
"Villepin's presidential hopes are in tatters", said Gerd Kroncke in [ Suddeutche Zeitung (Munich) ]..... "He now talks of his determination to stay and find a new solution, but the government is in no position to mount any kind of reform until after the presidential election. For the sake of his own self esteem he should resign."
"He'd not be in this mess", said Alain Duhamel in [ Liberation (Paris) ], "had he tried to negotiate rather than ram his reform through parliament. But then Villepin is hopelessly intransigent. Descended from a long line of army officers, he ignores the elementary rules of social dialogue while displaying an absurdly misplaced confidence in his ability to charm away opposition. The big winner in this is Sarkozy, who distanced himself from his boss when things got tough and began talking of compromise. Who'd have thought that Mr Law and Order would come out of this mess looking like a moderate?"
"Yet it may not do Sarkozy's presidential chances any good", said Jochen Hehn in [ Die Welt (Hamburg) ]....."With Villepin out of the way he is certain to be chosen as the right's candidate to succeed Chirac. But the fact that he has been talking tough about the need for deep seated reform of France's benefit system, only to run for cover when a minor reform is finally introduced, has not gone down well with right-wing voters. Tired of seeing governments buckle to unions and demonstrators, they will most likely flock to support the National Front. The Front's leader, Jean-Marie Le Pen, is, as he puts it, cheerfully planning to profit from the crisis "as a doctor does from an epidemic". "
"The other big winner is the Left", said Nicolas Beytout in [ Le Figaro (Paris) ]......." The unions have shown an impressive display of muscle even though only 9%of employees are members. The socialists have also benefited; they are hopelessly split between moderates and radicals, but have now experienced a surge of support. Segolene Royal, the partner of the Socialist party leader Francois Hollande, is currently ahead of Sarkozy in the polls. If they stop squabbling and agree to put her forward as their candidate, the presidency could soon be theirs."
Interesting days ahead, methinks.
Well, those days happened already, at least some, since those quoted reports were printed about a fortnight ago :wink:
I know, Walter, I have been catching up on the stack of magazines that were waiting for me on return from hols.
Lord Ellpus wrote:I know, Walter, I have been catching up on the stack of magazines that were waiting for me on return from hols.
I just look through the obituary notices after a holiday :wink:
(Although that's news from yesterday as well, if I look at it seriously.)
Francis wrote:French people don't bother about contradictions and are usually good at irony...
And this is somehow a good thing?
Instead, it tells me that French people (if your assertion is true) are idiots.
This I can believe, althought I know it is a terrible generalization.
The notion that France is populated, in its entirety, by a worldly, ironic class of society is ridiculous.
Unfortunately the leftist, Gaulists of France have commandeered the world's impression of the French.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Unfortunately the leftist, Gaulists of France have commandeered the world's impression of the French.
Who now: the leftists or the Gaulists?
Or do you mean both?
And how could two political parties do that? I don't get my opinion about people for some political parties in their country.
This is what I definately not would call idiotic but a show of complete uneducation., I think. (At least, I would never define USAmericans just by the politics of the Democrats or Republicans.)
From wikipedia:
Quote:The "Gaullists" as a political group used to refer to the Union des Démocrates pour la République.
Since de Gaulle's death, and the break-up of the UDR, the exact meaning of Gaullism is somewhat unclear. In 1980s-1990s usage, "Gaullism" referred to the Rassemblement pour la République (now integrated into the Union pour un Mouvement Populaire), Jacques Chirac's center-right party. Chirac has, in the past, adopted both dirigiste and laissez-faire approaches to economics; he now has a pro-European (pro-European Union) stance after famously denouncing europeanism in the Call of Cochin. For these reasons, some on the right, such as Charles Pasqua, denounce Chirac and his party as not being "true Gaullists".
List of political parties in France
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:Instead, it tells me that French people (if your assertion is true) are idiots.
I rest my case, at least towards such assertions, which, as Walter pointed out, are full of contradictions and ignorance..
To be honest, I've thaught that quote, Francis, to be so ..... [put here whatever you want] that I didn't answer it.
Do they know what it means?
Yes. Some of us have even been accused of it.
I don't believe that the French are idiots at all. (Indeed we - Americans & French - have many traits in common - we both believe we occupy the central position in the cultural & economic worlds, and that everyone should speak as we do. ) French politics can be a bit more dramatic than what occurs in most of the rest of Western Europe. However, the issues in question exist throughout continental Western Europe. Evidently both Socialism and what is called Social Democracy have profound enervating effects on the populations accustomed to them, Giving up state-provided protections from the realities of life can be very difficult for the protected population to accept - even when it is obvious that the protections can no longer be sustained, and are even doing real harm.
France will ultimately be forced by worsening conditions to face these issues, regardless of the winners and losers in the contemporary political scene. The longer reform is delayed, the more difficult it will be.
georgeob1 wrote: However, the issues in question exist throughout continental Western Europe. Evidently both Socialism and what is called Social Democracy have profound enervating effects on the populations accustomed to them.
When you look at the various poll results, when you look at the procentage of citiznes, who are members of a party, when you look at the parties, which formed the various governments - both in France as in other European countries - you'll easily notice that besides "Socialists" and Social Democrats conservative parties aren't to be neglected at all (see: France's and Germany's more recent history).
There influence seems sometimes to be far more pregnant: see Gaulissm in France and the first 40 years after WWII in Germany.
I agree with that Walter. I was using the term "Social Democratic" very loosely in terms of the specific European political parties, many of which - as you say - adopted the Social Democrat social welfare policies, which are the force behind the economic sclerosis that pervades Western Europe today. The whole experiment worked wonderfully well during the very rapid economic expansion that followed the end of WWII. However, today, with agerng populations, very slow economic growth, and serious economic competition from Asia, it is no longer sustainable and, worse, it breeds behaviors which worsen the situation of all the people. This is very well illustrated in France today.
Well, George, I wasn't referring to Social Democratic parties alone but to the conservatives: Germany was ruled by conservatives for more than 40 years ... and the Gaullists in France belong to that same category (as well as their 'heirs', who now rule France).
The French Socialists are on the same level as our Social Democrats (and the UK's Labour Party).
Georgeob1- According to a recent report, Germany has to worry about more than their internal politics. The birth rate in Germany is so low that there will not be enough workers to support the older and longer living German citizens who will retire soon. I guess that is what happens when a country becomes secularized, socialistic and economically somnolent.
This problem is not confined to Germany. Throughout continental Europe, from Spain to the Urals female fertility is around 1.4 - about 30% below the equilibrium level. France, the UK, and the Scandanavian countries are somewhat higher with rates ranging from 1.6 - 1.9. However even these rates mean population declines/
I was aware that the problem is not confined to Germany, George. All of Europe is becoming secularized. When the German President in 2090 is the grandson of a Turk, then the Germans will know what secularization and denial of religious principles have netted for them.
Bernard/Italgato/Massagato etc:
thanks for reporting these new, dramatic developments about the French riots which you reported above.
I am sorry, Mr. Hinteler. I have no new information about the French Riots. I was commenting on the "Social Democrat social welfare policies which, in George OB1's words"are the force behind the economic sclerosis that pervades Western Europe today." I would respectfully suggest that the new German President avail herself of advice from President Bush as to how to breathe new life into the German stock market. I am sure he would be happy to advise her.
