Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 02:59 pm
France's Interior Minister and anticipated 2007 French presidential candidate Nicolas Sarkozy has called for a compromise over a new youth labor law, which among other things allows employers to fire at will employees under age 26 during the first two years of their employment.
In a Saturday speech to members of his conservative Union pour un Mouvement Populaire, Sarkozy expressed understanding for those protesting the law and added, "When young people see [the law] as unjust, it is necessary to remove misunderstandings by organizing the conditions for dialogue and compromise."

Full text of Sarkozy's speech [in French]
0 Replies
 
Tarnabie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 06:42 am
Hell! What you all talking about? I'm sure that the last year's fire riots in and last week's student protests over a new youth labor law were all but the result of America's discontent of France in the view of its independent foreign policies since the end of WW II and friendly relations with Russia and especially de Villepin's criticism speech in UNO against US Iraq war campaign. It is well known that now France is striving to draw America out of Europe and certain guys in Washington don't like it at all that is why they will go any length to frustrate France through inside issues. This is certainly sort of vengeance, mind my words! Of cause they know their stuff and know how exactly they can organize riots, what strings to pull and slogans to chant at the exact moment so that nobody ever knows they have a finger in the pie.

You must know that the US was originally the initiator of student protests in Iran too, which in the end allowed radical islamites to come to power in Iran and what now? Americans are doing their job well - we've got civil unrest in Paris headed by pro-American islamites.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 06:47 am
Ehem, yes.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:41 am
Tarnabie wrote:
Hell! What you all talking about? I'm sure that the last year's fire riots in and last week's student protests over a new youth labor law were all but the result of America's discontent of France in the view of its independent foreign policies since the end of WW II and friendly relations with Russia and especially de Villepin's criticism speech in UNO against US Iraq war campaign. It is well known that now France is striving to draw America out of Europe and certain guys in Washington don't like it at all that is why they will go any length to frustrate France through inside issues. This is certainly sort of vengeance, mind my words! Of cause they know their stuff and know how exactly they can organize riots, what strings to pull and slogans to chant at the exact moment so that nobody ever knows they have a finger in the pie.

You must know that the US was originally the initiator of student protests in Iran too, which in the end allowed radical islamites to come to power in Iran and what now? Americans are doing their job well - we've got civil unrest in Paris headed by pro-American islamites.


Now it is all perfectly clear! The labor laws in France are working well. The economy is growing. Unemployment is low, particularly among the young. The spirit of hard work and self-reliance is strong among the French. The young people of France look forward confidently to the challenges of adult life, expecting to rely on their own efforts, and not the "protections" of government for their economnic welfare. A spirit of tolerance and respect for individual merit animates this happy society, which is entirely free of the ethnic and sectarian disputes that trouble other nations. The source of all their current troubles is the United States of America.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:46 am
I think, George, Tarnabie's first and only contribution to A2K is perhaps better to forget soon.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 11:39 am
Then it was a was a bad beginning. Perhaps he is French and expects others to protect him from the consequences of his folies.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 11:19 pm
No local news can be presented from many French papers today: the strike has started.

About every second traim amd metro is running, getting to Paris is more than difficult.

Now - at 7 o'clock in the morning - traffic jams around Paris are already about 50% worse than usually.

http://i1.tinypic.com/sexb45.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 11:34 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
No local news can be presented from many French papers today: the strike has started.


"Les Echos", one of the leading daily French business newspapers, was printed, however.

On their frontpage a graphic shows the number of people having taken part during the last couple of years in nationwide demonstrations re social questions (numbers splitted: according organisators/police)


http://i1.tinypic.com/sexhlg.jpg
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 12:42 am
Interesting history. The Roman emperors discovered long ago that once they began feeding and entertaining the Roman mob, they could never stop without risking revolution. Apparently the French are in the same situation.

The problem is the French government faces social problems due to high levels of unemployment, particularly among the young. Moreover it can no longer afford the revenue cost of the social welfare system without significant economic growth. However, both economic growth and job creation are limited by the labor market regulation component of the same social welfare system - which the unions and the young are now protesting. Thus the government is paralyzed - it can neither improve the social and economic situation, or even continue paying for the escalating cost of social benefits for the unemployed and others.

The French people have some serious choices to make.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 01:45 am
The French Government will cave. It is spineless when it comes to matters of this kind.

No French employer in their right minds will risk taking on a youngster, if it means that they will not be able to sack that person due to poor attitude/attendance etc.

The young, therefore, will remain unemployed in droves, and the older, employed population will have to pay the unemployment benefits.


....unless Chirac can find a good way of getting the money out of the EU, that is. Then all of the rest of us will pay for France's unemployed young.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:17 am
A Q and A page from the BBC....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4816306.stm



My view is that they brought in this law, knowing that it was too tough, in order to negotiate it down to the type of law that they wanted in the first place.

My brother is up to his neck in work in France. People are screaming out for electricians, and he really can't keep up with demand. He and his business partner employ seven men, aged between 30 and 40 ish, all carefully hand picked from electricians they have worked with in the past, as colleagues, before my brother set up his company.
They therefore knew from day one, that these guys were good, reliable and trustworthy.
They HAD to select their employees this way, as taking on a youngster (to train) means that after about three months, it becomes virtually impossible to sack them.
They have been down that road once, when they first started up and were naive, and ended up with a 19 yr old who, after his three months "trial period" was passed, became lazy, surly and unreliable virtually overnight. They made a policy there and then, not to go down THAT road again.
Luckily, the 19 yr old's family moved out of the area, and he decided to go with them. My brother and his partner went out that evening, to celebrate.
He was over here recently and we were discussing this issue. He is very much an old fashioned tradesman at heart, and would dearly love to "give back" in the form of training apprentices if he could, but just can't take the risk.
If this law comes into being, he said he would probably take on an apprentice, and so would his partner (and maybe one or two of his employees would do the same).
With the work demand, he could easily increase his employee numbers by five or six, but won't consider doing this unless the new law comes in.

The danger is, that both he and his partner (AND three of their employees) are seriously considering winding down, or early retirement, as the overloaded work scenario has both made them all earn a LOT of money, and made them feel overworked and stressed out.

He says that most of the building trades, with whom he rubs shoulders every day, are all saying exactly the same thing. Too much work, too much risk when it comes to taking on apprentices, and early retirement on the horizon.

What will happen to France, if this employer risk is not removed, in about five years time?

A large proportion of the skilled trades will have retired, and there will be no young French blood to replace them.

Then they will all complain (again....remember the main reason for rejecting the constitution?) about workers coming in from the Eastern EU, and taking over.


His other point was very interesting. All of the power on both sides of the argument, are only working out of pure self interest, in his opinion.

He says that the general opinion among his building site mates (from all trades, employers and employees...good, ordinary working men) is that the trades union bosses don't give a sh*t about their workers, but have to fight this law, in order not to upset them. If they didn't fight this law, they would be out of a comfy, well paid desk job that includes a wonderful expenses budget.
Their first point of call, when wanting to get the government to cave in, is to either get the farmers/transport people out there with their tractors and trucks, or get the students to stamp their feet.

The students are already doing their bit, so watch out for the blockades. Knowing the french, this will happen over the Easter holidays, and will probably involve Calais, the biggest tourist ferryport from England to France.

By doing this, they cause massive publicity AND annoy the Brits, which they see as a bonus.


The law will be watered down...........substantially, IMO.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:19 am
cartoon in Spectator magazine this week

Two French rioters taking a cigarette break. Man reading newspaper entitled

French Unrest to Continue Indefinitely

woman says

'Maybe we should strike for a shorter rioting week'
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:22 am
Brilliant, Steve!
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:23 am
Look at France's work relations today, and you see Britain in the 70's.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:35 am
I'd rather live there though.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 03:47 am
Yep....rural France, though. Not the big cities.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 06:02 am
I suppose, you should consider the differences in .... working culture as well.

Take Germany, for instance.
Any electrician isn't to to sacked for .... three years during his "learning time"/apprenticeship - working is part of our 'dual-education'.

And again: the domonstrations are against the new law that you can be sacked (if under 26) during the first two years without reason - I sincerely doubt that such is possible in the UK (at least, it would be against the law).

I think, we have a similar situation here like in France - employers aren't training/employing apprentices anymore.
On the other hand, they are complaining that not many skilled workers are to be found nowadays.

I agree that labour law works best for employers when it's alway adjusted to their momentary situation - work and economy related etc.
I suppose, employers won't like to do the same and adjust the labour law to the situation of their employees.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 06:59 am
According to latest news from a few minutes ago, Sarkozy today for a suspension of the CPE during the time, talks for a compromise are being discussed: Sarkozy pour une "non application" du CPE durant les négociations

(Sarkozy said som after Villepin had left that party meeting, both were attending.)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 08:36 am


Summary:

Quote:
2006/03/28 · The Independent

Paris is bracing itself for violence as up to 100,000 protesters are expected to march against a new employment law. Last Thursday, a student march was disrupted by 2,000 youths from the troubled suburbs who burned cars, beat and robbed student demonstrators and attacked journalists and police. Although nominally demonstrating, they made clear that they had mostly come into Paris to confront the police and rob "rich" students.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 08:49 am
Unions say, about 700,000 people have taken part in the march (and the demonstrations) in Paris. (525,000 according to the police.)
Vandalism happened before and at the end of the demonstration.


(Ended 3/4 hours ago officially.)

All over France, up to 3 million people demonstrated at 134 different places.
0 Replies
 
 

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