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New York Times – Bush Incompetent

 
 
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:08 am
Is the groundwork being laid for his removal from office?



New York Times editorial
Published: November 8, 2005

After President Bush's disastrous visit to Latin America, it's unnerving to realize that his presidency still has more than three years to run. An administration with no agenda and no competence would be hard enough to live with on the domestic front. But the rest of the world simply can't afford an American government this bad for that long.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/opinion/08tue1.html?hp
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,289 • Replies: 42
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:15 am
The Bush administration HAS and agenda and are competant. It just so happens the editorial staff og the NY TIMES does not agree with it.

How does the TIMES know how the REST OF THE WORLD thinks? Did they ask EVERY ONE in Austrailia's Govt, the British Gov't, most Eastern European Gov'ts?

I think the TIMES needs to concentrate on their own dwindling distribution and just report ALL the facts.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:23 am
The country cannot stand another three years of this but Bush will no more more listen to the Times sound advice than his delusional loyalists will: From the Chris Matthes program:

Quote:



Chris Matthews: 58 percent of the American people say they don't trust President Bush. A staggering new number in the new Washington Post poll...

The New Republic's Michelle Cottle: It's a huge problem for him because that's what he built his presidency over, and I think that people are finally realizing that just because you're likable and affable doesn't necessarily mean that you're trustworthy. I mean, here's a guy who's...they've been running amok in secrecy, and people have been kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt because they think he's kind of clueless. But now they're seeing the response to this...

Matthews: Sam, you were [around during] Watergate, I want you to talk about this. They've got kind of a gangrene setting in here. They've got the vice president being touched by this, clearly, because of the indictment language. We've got Scooter Libby gone, basically. Karl Rove still under investigation. Can the president amputate now or has it already gotten to him? Can he separate himself from all this mess by just a couple firings and then move on?

ABC News's Sam Donaldson: No. Because Michelle put her finger on it. The damage to him is that the American people don't trust him anymore. It's a personal character thing. It's not, `This policy doesn't work' or `Gosh, we're going to have high heating oil bills; that's terrible, I don't like that.' It's, `I don't trust you.' You can't repair that by getting rid of X, Y or Z. He's the problem in the minds of a majority of the American people.

Newsweek's Howard Fineman: But he doesn't want to repair it. He doesn't want to repair it.

Matthews: Why?

Fineman: Because George W. Bush is the guy who's going to stick with these people. These are the people he came with...

Matthews: But he'd like to be more trusted, wouldn't he?

Fineman: He's gonna try to fight his way out...

BBC's Katty Kaye: What Republicans are particularly worried about is not the "trust" numbers, but the numbers which show that Americans are starting to feel that he doesn't care about their issues; that he's not somebody who realizes what they hold important. It's the exact problem that happened to [George H.W.] Bush, Sr. And that is not just this whole [leak] investigation---this is [hurricane] Katrina [response] as well. This is that he's not looking at the things that are important to the American people.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:32 am
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
The country cannot stand another three years of this but Bush will no more more listen to the Times sound advice than his delusional loyalists will


So you think a president should take advice from a newspaper? Under what circumstances should he do so? Because you happen to think it is good advice? I'm just curious.

Down here, I have read all kinds of advice for the president in my newspaper. Some of it contradicts advice that was in the paper only weeks before. I think Bush (or any president for that matter) is probably better off ignoring advice from newspaper columnists. Of course, that is just one humble clown's opinion.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:37 am
woiyo wrote:
The Bush administration HAS and agenda and are competant.

Keep telling yourself that woiyo, you may even come to believe it.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:38 am
woiyo wrote:
The Bush administration HAS and agenda and are competant. It just so happens the editorial staff og the NY TIMES does not agree with it.


A valid point. But the NYT as international visibility and its editorial page as an international impact. Which is say it has a very big club. When it lays one right between the eyes as this editorial does, something serious is afoot.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:47 am
CoastalRat wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
The country cannot stand another three years of this but Bush will no more more listen to the Times sound advice than his delusional loyalists will


So you think a president should take advice from a newspaper? Under what circumstances should he do so?


The press, in a free society, represents the voice of the people. The President NEEDS to listen to SOMEBODY outside of hic circle of thugs. Actually, I would go one step further, I would ask him to publically announce that he is asking for the resignation of Dr. Evil and fire Rove, Rumsfeld and Snow.

What do YOU think he should do? Nothing?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:52 am
BBB
If trust is the coin of the realm, Bush is bankrupt.

BBB
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:53 am
That is my point though TPN. Opinions about what he should do are so varied, whose should he listen to? I agree with you that he should be aware of various opinions and even take them under advisement. But simply because he decides not to take the course that some guy suggests in the NYT does not mean, as you seem to suggest, that he does not listen to the advice. It may simply mean that he decided on a different course of action.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:09 am
CoastalRat wrote:
That is my point though TPN. Opinions about what he should do are so varied, whose should he listen to? I agree with you that he should be aware of various opinions and even take them under advisement. But simply because he decides not to take the course that some guy suggests in the NYT does not mean, as you seem to suggest, that he does not listen to the advice. It may simply mean that he decided on a different course of action.


BTW the NYT editorial board is not "some guy." It is a consensus of several men and women. Far be it for me to defend the NYT but it is not "some guy" and what they say in their editorials carries a great deal of weight. Apparently, you do not want to discuss what should be done, all you can do is try to dismiss the messenger. I assume, by your refusal to answer my question, that you think Bush should do nothing.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:19 am
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
The country cannot stand another three years of this but Bush will no more more listen to the Times sound advice than his delusional loyalists will


So you think a president should take advice from a newspaper? Under what circumstances should he do so?


The press, in a free society, represents the voice of the people. The President NEEDS to listen to SOMEBODY outside of hic circle of thugs.

But he doesn't. That became clear during the Katrina debacle, when his aides were afraid to interrupt his vacation with bad news. Katrina was in all of the media; Bush had to hear about it from a quaking staffer.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:21 am
The current president is rather infamous for his dislike of news that hasn't been pre-digested. Quite a shame.

Gotta say I prefer politicians who are curious about differing points of view. I think it makes them better able to respond to things as they happen. It sort of suggests they're able to form their own opinions.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:27 am
The real dilemma is that Bush is, as we knew all along, merely a figurehead. He does however have the Constitutional power to cut Cheney out of the loop and fire everyone else. I am hearing the only voice of reason is Andy Card. As much as the temptation to gloat about being right is intoxicating, the realization that the country and the world cannot stand another three years of this makes me hope and pray that someone jumps in and rescues this Presidency NOW!
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:32 am
I don't care if it is some guy or a consensus of the entire news department of the NYT. My point remains the same.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:36 am
CoastalRat wrote:
I don't care if it is some guy or a consensus of the entire news department of the NYT. My point remains the same.


Which is that Bush shouldn't listen to anyone outside the Gang of Thugs. That is working real well. Maybe we will see 25% approval with that brilliant political strategy. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:44 am
DrewDad wrote:
woiyo wrote:
The Bush administration HAS and agenda and are competant.

Keep telling yourself that woiyo, you may even come to believe it.


I did not say I agreed with it..... Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:50 am
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I don't care if it is some guy or a consensus of the entire news department of the NYT. My point remains the same.


Which is that Bush shouldn't listen to anyone outside the Gang of Thugs. That is working real well. Maybe we will see 25% approval with that brilliant political strategy. Rolling Eyes


Can you not get it through your head that I did not say he should not listen to opposing views of what he should do? I agreed with you that he should listen. Absolutely. We only disagree in one regard here. You see his actions as proof he is ignoring views that you agree with. I see his actions at taking all views into account and going with what he believes is best.

I could be wrong about that. But so could you. I guess in reality neither of us will ever know for sure, which makes talking about this a bit pointless.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 12:21 pm
CoastalRat wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I don't care if it is some guy or a consensus of the entire news department of the NYT. My point remains the same.


Which is that Bush shouldn't listen to anyone outside the Gang of Thugs. That is working real well. Maybe we will see 25% approval with that brilliant political strategy. Rolling Eyes


Can you not get it through your head that I did not say he should not listen to opposing views of what he should do? I agreed with you that he should listen. Absolutely. We only disagree in one regard here. You see his actions as proof he is ignoring views that you agree with. I see his actions at taking all views into account and going with what he believes is best.

I could be wrong about that. But so could you. I guess in reality neither of us will ever know for sure, which makes talking about this a bit pointless.




" I see his actions at taking all views into account and going with what he believes is best."

Do you honestly think that GWB either chooses to read the Daily Newspapers, or gets an accurate "precis" of the news from one of his lackeys?

I would imagine that his whole day is taken up on such important things as "how can we manipulate this situation" or "how do we improve my ratings", whilst the dark forces of Cheney et al, work quietly in the background, towards their long term objectives.

Bush is nothing more than the tea boy, and is regarded as an absolute joke outside of the USA.

Three more years eh? Bloody hell!
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 12:39 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
woiyo wrote:
The Bush administration HAS and agenda and are competant. It just so happens the editorial staff og the NY TIMES does not agree with it.


A valid point. But the NYT as international visibility and its editorial page as an international impact. Which is say it has a very big club. When it lays one right between the eyes as this editorial does, something serious is afoot.


As subscribers and viewers dwindle, Mainstream Media - or should that be "Lame Stream Media" - and its coterie of sycophantic, equally-deluded followers wonders why.

What The Public wants to know is What Happened, not "Here's what we want you to think about what happened".

The "America Worst" crowd, led by the failing old-line media establishment, championed by the Bushophobes, are increasingly clueless as to the cause of their decline, distress, and general disappointment, and blind to the real state of affairs domestic and global. Things ain't going the way that crew would like them to, so to them, things are going all wrong, and the hope they imagine they find lies in fixing on, or inventing, issues of inconvenience to their opposition.

Just about every election cycle - home and abroad - now brings that crew another round of unpleasant surprises. That oughtta - but obviously doesn't - tell the constantly surprised that their constant surprise is of their own making. It can't be that they're getting it wrong, that The Public is not in sympathy and/or agreement with them, no, of course not. The problems and disappointments of The Left just hafta be the result of skullduggery and malfeasance on the part of The Evil Other Side, you know.

Of the 34 states participating in the OAS summit, 29 signed on to the initiative to restart talks aimed at implementing the Free Trade of the Americas pact . 4 of the 5 non-signatory states, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay, witheld their endorsements temporarily, making clear they were basing their action on concerns over global farm subsidy issues, concerns echoed by The US, and an issue The US will press vigorously at the upcoming 148-Nation Doha Talks this December in Hog Kong (where, as in Argentina, one may expect The Media to pay much attention to the rent-a-mobs of protestors, and very little attention to the substance of the parliamentary proceedings). What the real story out of the just-concluded Argentina talks is is that alone among the participants, pipsqueak Hugo Chavez' essentially insignificant - and floundering - Venezuela opposes. While nations comprising 90% of the GDP of the region support, in principle or by actual endorsement, the FTA Pact, only Venezuela presents opposition, opposition based on ideology, opposition in which none of the 33 other participating states have joined. To the contrary, no one has endorsed the ridiculous counter proposals Chavez offers, while Mexico's Fox has said the Free Trade Pact will move on apart from Venezuela, Tony Saca, El Salvadore's president, said specifically and unambiguously to Chavez at the summit, "Our position is of a total and absolute support of the FTAA. The spirit of integration will prevail", and Colombia, Ecuador and Peru are concluding an extraordinarily swift, 18-month effort to develop and implement a separate though related Andean Nation/US pact along US guidelines. The "Failure" associated with Bush the Greater's visit to Argentia is that of the pundits who continue to press "America Worst" even as US policy continues to notch successes throughout the globe.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 12:42 pm
CoastalRat wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I don't care if it is some guy or a consensus of the entire news department of the NYT. My point remains the same.


Which is that Bush shouldn't listen to anyone outside the Gang of Thugs. That is working real well. Maybe we will see 25% approval with that brilliant political strategy. Rolling Eyes


Can you not get it through your head that I did not say he should not listen to opposing views of what he should do? I agreed with you that he should listen. Absolutely. We only disagree in one regard here. You see his actions as proof he is ignoring views that you agree with. I see his actions at taking all views into account and going with what he believes is best.

I could be wrong about that. But so could you. I guess in reality neither of us will ever know for sure, which makes talking about this a bit pointless.


Except for the fact that Bush has publically stated he doesn't listen to advice from newspapers as he doesn't read newspapers. Sorry to confuse you with the facts.
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