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Genesis Redux

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 06:40 pm
jstark wrote:
Well if God parted the Red Sea in front of my eyes, I would be a believer, let me tell you.
Amazing, don't you think?
jstark wrote:
neologist wrote:
The apocryphal books, when examined closely, clearly do not fit in with the canonical books.
jstark wrote:
I know, I'm not arguing that they fit, just that they were there in the KJV and are there now in some versions and not in others and Catholics canonized them out of spite, etc. Some Bibles have them. Some centuries had them. They are in and out. Whats God's verdict here? Whats a Christian to believe?
Not quite as ubiquitous as you are wont to believe.
jstark wrote:
neologist wrote:
I suppose it is a test for humanity, but in keeping with the thought expressed in 1Corinthians 10:13:
"No temptation has taken YOU except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let YOU be tempted beyond what YOU can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for YOU to be able to endure it."
Hmm, thats a good one. Do you have a team of monkeys working round the clock looking up refs for you?
No, just a good search function.
jstark wrote:
neologist wrote:
jstark wrote:
Welcome to the club! Smile. . .
I've been clubbed many times and now have a very thick head. Laughing
Ha! Evolution is proved!
Would that I could pass this marvelous trait to my descendants! Laughing
0 Replies
 
jstark
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 07:09 pm
neologist wrote:
jstark wrote:
Well if God parted the Red Sea in front of my eyes, I would be a believer, let me tell you.
Amazing, don't you think?


I was repsonding to your comment that there are characters in the Bible who might have witnesses such a thing and then shrugged and gone back to there lives. I see them as stories that characterize the unbeliever as unreasonable.

neologist wrote:
jstark wrote:
neologist wrote:
The apocryphal books, when examined closely, clearly do not fit in with the canonical books.
I know, I'm not arguing that they fit, just that they were there in the KJV and are there now in some versions and not in others and Catholics canonized them out of spite, etc. Some Bibles have them. Some centuries had them. They are in and out. Whats God's verdict here? Whats a Christian to believe?
Not quite as ubiquitous as you are wont to believe.


But that is my point.

neologist wrote:
jstark wrote:
neologist wrote:
I suppose it is a test for humanity, but in keeping with the thought expressed in 1Corinthians 10:13:
"No temptation has taken YOU except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let YOU be tempted beyond what YOU can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for YOU to be able to endure it."
Hmm, thats a good one. Do you have a team of monkeys working round the clock looking up refs for you?
No, just a good search function.


Just to be clear, the quote was great. It amazes me some of the quotes that can be pulled from the Bible. This one in particular is very apt from the point of view of divine protection. Of course, the quote is in the Bible, so it's sort of circular in relation to this thread.

-J
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 09:05 pm
Are we disagreeing here?
0 Replies
 
jstark
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 09:08 pm
neologist wrote:
Are we disagreeing here?


Cool.

-peace
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 10:10 pm
Speaking of cool:
Care for a cool one? http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/cheers.gif
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:10 am
jstark wrote:

"One can never receive enough evidence of the Tooth Fairy, if they do not have faith. And if there is faith, there is never a need for evidence." -me


My new canon! Truer words have never been spoken.
0 Replies
 
jstark
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:04 am
neologist wrote:
Speaking of cool:
Care for a cool one?


Man, after this week, keep 'em coming until the Tooth Fairy says enough...
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:20 pm
J_B Wrote:

Quote:
My new canon! Truer words have never been spoken.


Well, glad I posted it, but I'm not quite sure it means the same to you as me! Laughing And I really mean that lightheartedly J_B, because I don't know what is in your heart and I will not presume to know.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:39 pm
Did I give it the wrong credit? Sorry, if I did.

No matter who said it. I'll say it again.

from jstark's post
Quote:

"One can never receive enough evidence of the Tooth Fairy, if they do not have faith. And if there is faith, there is never a need for evidence." -me


From now on, I'm praying to the Tooth Fairy! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:47 pm
http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/laughing1.gifActually, I was the one that posted it to jstark.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 01:52 pm
Back to Genesis, if we may...

Genesis 12:10-20 tells the story of Abram and Sarai in Egypt. As they approach Egypt, Abram has Sarai play the role of his sister, not his wife, so that life would go well for him, his life might be spared and he might prosper. Sarai marries Pharaoh and as a favor to her, Pharaoh deals well with Abram who becomes rich. God then afflicts the house of Pharoah with great plagues because he has married another man's wife. Once discovered, Sarai is cast out and Abram is told to take her, and be gone. He leaves with Sarai, Lot, and all his riches and returns to Caanan.

This is the man who is the father of the three great religions of the world?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 02:00 pm
J_B,

I am confused. Who is "the man" you are asking is the father of the three great religions of the world and which religions do you mean?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 02:19 pm
Abram (or Abraham) is considered the father of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. They are all known as the Abrahamic religions.

edit: This might help -

Quote:
The Abrahamic religions all trace back to the Prophet Abraham. God called Abraham out of his hometown Ur which is modern day Iraq to settle in Caanan (Israel).

There, God promised Abraham his descendants will forever inhabit those lands.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are these three religions.

Many people ask well how does Islam claim to be an Abrahamic religion?

Abraham's first son, Ishmael, is the ancestor of all Muslims. The Prophet Muhammad is a direct descendant of Ishmael, thus being a descendant of Abraham.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/4121
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 02:37 pm
Ok, I am doing some rereading in Genesis before I reply.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 02:57 pm
J_B wrote:
Back to Genesis, if we may...

Genesis 12:10-20 tells the story of Abram and Sarai in Egypt. As they approach Egypt, Abram has Sarai play the role of his sister, not his wife, so that life would go well for him, his life might be spared and he might prosper. Sarai marries Pharaoh and as a favor to her, Pharaoh deals well with Abram who becomes rich. God then afflicts the house of Pharoah with great plagues because he has married another man's wife. Once discovered, Sarai is cast out and Abram is told to take her, and be gone. He leaves with Sarai, Lot, and all his riches and returns to Caanan.

This is the man who is the father of the three great religions of the world?


In answer to your question, yes.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 03:09 pm
Laughing cute, CR.

Abram means "Ab (a divine name) is lofty". Abraham means "Father of a multitude (of nations)". I don't see anything lofty about pimping one's wife. And, what's with God for sending the plagues to Pharaoh?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 03:54 pm
Abraham did not tell Sarah to represent herself as his sister so she could be married to anyone, but to prevent mistreatment of himself by the Egyptians in general.

Pharaoh never was able to go through with the proposed marriage.

There must be more to what was written, of course, but it doesn't appear that Abraham 'pimped' his wife.
0 Replies
 
jstark
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 04:32 pm
neologist wrote:
Abraham did not tell Sarah to represent herself as his sister so she could be married to anyone, but to prevent mistreatment of himself by the Egyptians in general.

Pharaoh never was able to go through with the proposed marriage.

There must be more to what was written, of course, but it doesn't appear that Abraham 'pimped' his wife.


In the KJV it seems unclear as to wether Pharaoh married Sarai:

12:19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife...

My New Revised Standard Version (Oxford) is clear, however:

12:19 Why did you say, "She is my sister", so that I took her for my wife? ...

Judging from his actions, it is also pretty clear that Pharaoh would not have killed Abram and taken his wife. It seems Abram was either racist, uninformed or just thinking the Egyptians would do as he would have done.

-J
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 04:48 pm
jstark,

Racist or uninformed? Really. You don't seem to take into the account of the time we are talking about here.

Most cultures at that time did not intermarry! So what? Were they all racist and uninformed or were they following the laws of God?

And no, God is not racist, jstark. The reason He says intermarriage is wrong is not because of race. The reason is because of the problems it causes for the couple and their children arising from that union because of the way man is. Has nothing to do with God being racist.
0 Replies
 
jstark
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 05:12 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
jstark,

Racist or uninformed? Really. You don't seem to take into the account of the time we are talking about here.

Most cultures at that time did not intermarry! So what? Were they all racist and uninformed or were they following the laws of God?

And no, God is not racist, jstark. The reason He says intermarriage is wrong is not because of race. The reason is because of the problems it causes for the couple and their children arising from that union because of the way man is. Has nothing to do with God being racist.


The reason I suggested racist was that Abram apparently made a determination as to what would happen based on an incorrect assumption about Egyptians. As it turned out, Pharaoh seemed to be a reasonably nice fellow. He let Abram leave with all of the gifts he had been given even after he had lied and that lie caused great harm to Pharaoh and Egypt. If Pharaoh did not kill him for that he certainly would not have killed him for his wife. So where did Abram get that idea?

In any event, Abram was wrong.

-J
0 Replies
 
 

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