Is George Bush really a Christian?

So, following your logic, bluevein, one must accept that someone is a Christian as long as they attend church, unless there is some evidence that he/she is not. Ok.

Muslims attend church (mosque) as well. What's the difference? One must accept that they are devout Muslim until they prove otherwise. This question is mostly for the one who call himself/herself questioner. Questioner does not seem to know about the Christian Crusades, which was begun by Europeans. Not Muslism. The Crusades were bloody and violent and can be compared to the Islam/Muslim faction who call themselves Sunni's and follow the Wahabi belief system. Not all Muslims are violent. I know quite a few and they are very nice folks. The ones who 'blow themselves up' are not the mainstream Muslims. By your naive response, you imply that all Muslims tie babies on their backs and implode themselves. Rather silly statement and patently false. They think the Christians are violent and their leader (Bush) is crazy. Quite right.

You really do sound stupid, questioner, by your ignorant comments. Obviously you have not admitted that the Christians can be and are violent. Poor pathetic creature. A Bush follower, are you? He's a poor example of what a christian should be, but hey, there is no vaccination against stupidity. Can't argue with a turnip.

Whether or not all muslims are violent is immaterial. The texts which form the basis for the religion, Koran and Hadiths are easily interpreted to allow if not direct violence in the name allah.

It is quite obvious that there is an unlimited number of believers willing to wrap themselves in explosives and detonate them in a crowd of innocents.

Yes, just as there was an unlimited supply of Kamikazes who did a lot of damage in WWII. They definitely believed in what they were doing as well.

Now the US trades with Japan.

The fact of 'whether or not all muslims are violent is immaterial' (your quote) is beyond stupid. The Koran does not advocate violence anymore than the Bible. Remember Gideon? Read much of the old testament? Plenty of violence there, all in the name of God/Allah.

If Americans would LEAVE Iraq, the people who 'blow themselves up' would not be doing it. It's the only way they know to get rid of the Americans. I read that Americans ride around on their tanks with guns at the ready. Canadians, on the other hand, do not display this aggression. They actually walk up to people and talk to them. Guess that is the big difference between a peacekeeping country (Canada) and a warmongering one (America). By their very attitude towards Muslims, the Americans are making themselves more hated every day.

Iraqis didn't blow themselves up under Saddam. Not that he's a shining example; but neither are the American troops. They are desperate people who are being trampled on by the US. They don't have heavy armaments, big guns, like the US. What do you expect them to do? Why doesn't the US get out? Can't they take a hint? The US is making the situation worse, not better.

You believe what you will, perpetrated by Bush's spin doctors. I will continue to believe that the Muslims, by and large, believe in God/Allah and are law abiding citizens. What would YOU do if some country invaded YOUR country, for no reason? And abused and killed your women, your mother, and kids? Just to get your oil? Hmmm??

The 'Christian' fraud president-king-of-the-world has a lot to answer for, and it is just beginning.

Yep, and they directed their planes into American warships not women and children. Many Japanese jumped to their deaths in Saipan rather than be taken prisoner. So what?


Beyond stupid you say? Just because the bible is another violence ridden ancient text based upon the Hebrew war god is no reason to excuse the muslim texts and their contribution toward violence. The world would be much better off if they would both fall into disfavor and fade away.



You seem to be a bit slow on the uptake there bud. If you had glanced at my sig line it should have been obvious that I am no fan of GW Bush or his misadventure into Iraq. However the deed is done. We broke it and are obligated to fix it. Leaving now would surely result in all out civil war and massive bloodshed. Are you so naive as to think that if only the Americans would pull out of Iraq, everything would be sweet and rosie?

"Leaving now would surely result in all out civil war and massive bloodshed", you say?
What do you call this?

Published on Monday, December 26, 2005 by the Los Angeles Times

Violence Flares Up Across Iraq

by Louise Roug and Borzou Daragahi

BAGHDAD ?- Bitter demonstrations and a series of roadside bombings and shootings across Iraq on Sunday and early today left at least 21 people dead, ending a relatively placid stretch since the parliamentary election a week and a half ago.


Iraqi soldiers display an array of weapons at the customs police headquarters in Najaf, Iraq, Sunday Dec. 18, 2005. The weapons cache was found in the desert some 70 kilometers ( 43 miles ) west of Najaf. More than 15 people died in a string of bombings and shootings overnight and on Sunday, shattering three days of relative calm that followed the country's first election for a full-term parliament. (AP Photo/Alaa al-Marjani)
The violence comes after more than a week of discontent and acrimony among some voters over the preliminary results of the Dec. 15 balloting for the first permanent national government since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

With those early tabulations showing a probable landslide for Shiite Muslim religious parties, losing slates and their supporters have cried foul. More than 1,000 election fraud complaints have been filed with Iraqi officials, and there have been waves of protests in and around Baghdad.

"With these election results you're giving the resistance a reason to continue their resistance," said Nabeal Mohammed Younis, a professor of political science and a Sunni Muslim Arab nationalist.

Sunni Arabs, a minority who enjoyed favored status under Saddam Hussein's former government, as well as secular Iraqis have expressed disappointment and even disbelief that they did not win more votes in the election.

U.S. officials have already become resigned to the looming election results. Since the vote, Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld have visited Iraq and met with transitional Prime Minister Ibrahim Jafari of the Shiite religious coalition.

Western officials have begun optimistically likening the ascendant Shiite religious political parties to the U.S.-backed Christian Democratic parties that dominated German and Italian politics after World War II.

At the same time, angry protests about the vote took place in cities across Iraq against a backdrop of violence.

A suicide car bomber slammed into two Iraqi army vehicles in central Baghdad on Sunday, killing five soldiers and wounding seven police and civilians, police Maj. Mohammed Younis told Associated Press.

The U.S. military also announced the deaths Sunday of two soldiers from Task Force Baghdad. Both were killed by roadside bombs.

In a separate incident, an American tank was set ablaze when it hit a roadside bomb on a Baghdad highway, Iraqi officials said. The U.S. military confirmed the report but would not release details on casualties.

Two Iraqi soldiers were killed in a mortar attack on an Iraqi army base in Mahmoudiya. Another mortar blast injured two people near the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Baghdad.

Three officers in an Iraqi police patrol were wounded by a roadside bomb near the capital's Al Shaab stadium.

Near the city's heavily fortified Green Zone, 11 people were injured when a roadside bomb exploded near a group of Iraqi soldiers.

In Tikrit, north of the capital, rebels targeted Gov. Hamid Hamoud Qaisi, who escaped unhurt from a bombing on the road to Baiji.

In the northern city of Kirkuk, gunmen attacked a police checkpoint. Officers killed one of the insurgents, but other guerrillas fled. Ten minutes later, a bomb exploded nearby, wounding two civilians. Later in the day, the convoy of a Kurdish official hit a bomb, injuring four bodyguards and three civilians.

And early today, assailants attacked an Iraqi police checkpoint near Baqubah with gunfire and mortar rounds. Five Iraqi officers and six gunmen were killed in the clash, Iraqi officials said.

One of Sunday's largest political protests took place in Baqubah, northeast of the capital, drawing more than 1,000 demonstrators.

The march had been delayed a day because of fear of violence, said Mishaan Saadi of the National Dialogue Council, a Sunni Arab nationalist group.

"We were forced not to go out" yesterday, he said Sunday. "But today we were determined to demonstrate whatever the price."

In the northern city of Mosul, students took to the streets, protesting the alleged assassination of Qusai Salahaddin, a Sunni Arab student leader with ties to a political party in Mosul. Salahaddin, who had headed an earlier demonstration, was abducted Friday, said Khalid Othman, spokesman for the Iraqi Islamic Party in Mosul. His body was found Sunday and his funeral morphed into a demonstration against the Shiite-Kurdish coalition government.

In recent days, the city had been touted by American officials as an example of progress in Iraq. On Saturday, Rumsfeld visited Mosul, serving food to U.S. troops.

In the western city of Fallouja, a gathering of Sunni families assembled to bid their relatives goodbye as they left for the hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca, turned into a protest as residents demanded a rerun of the election, the withdrawal of American troops from the city and lower gasoline prices. The cost of fuel has skyrocketed since Dec. 15.

Omar Jumeili, a 40-year-old supermarket owner who participated in the protest, said residents had hoped for better government services after the vote. "But instead they increased the prices of gasoline," he said.

Last week, the head of the city council, Sheik Kamal Nazal, voiced a similar complaint: "The ink wasn't even dry on our fingers before they raised the prices," he said.

In the impoverished Sadr City district of Baghdad, hundreds of Shiites, including police officers, marched in support of the apparently victorious Shiite religious slate and the current government. Some held up signs saying "No, no to [former interim Prime Minister Iyad] Allawi," who led a broad secular slate in the balloting.

Despite claims of election malfeasance made by Sunnis and secular Shiites, early results roughly match those of the Oct. 15 constitutional referendum.

In Baghdad province, 22.3% of voters rejected the Shiite-supported constitution in October. This month, Sunni Arab political slates received about 21% of the vote, and Allawi's slate got 14%. In Shiite-dominated Basra in October, 4% of voters cast "no" ballots against the referendum. This time around, Sunni parties received about 5% of the vote while Allawi's list got 11% there.

Nevertheless, the complaints have been accumulating. They have included allegations of ballot stuffing, miscounting and numerical discrepancies.

Some are minor. For example, one complaint alleges that all of the voters in a certain polling station chose Sunni Arab candidate Saleh Mutlak.

More seriously, Sunni Arabs have accused high-level election officials of exhibiting bias in favor of the religious Shiite-led United Iraqi Alliance. But international election officials say the evidence is thin. In one instance, critics accused a leading female election official of being biased in favor of religious parties merely because she is an alwiya, a Shiite descendant of the prophet Muhammad.

A representative from Allawi's secular slate charged that ballots from an entire province had been miscounted, costing his coalition more than 70,000 votes and at least one seat in the new parliament.

Monitors from the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq have been examining disputed ballot boxes to look for signs of vote tampering or ballot stuffing.

Officials have said that they haven't found any signs of serious vote fraud, though they continue to investigate about 35 complaints, including allegations that election officials may have been party to vote rigging.

"This election has been one of the most observed in the whole world," said Adil Lami, head of the commission.

Times staff writers Raheem Salman and Saif Rasheed and special correspondents Asmaa Waguih in Baghdad and others in Tikrit, Kirkuk and Mosul contributed to this report.

Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times

Any support of the war in Iraq at this point will be a repeat of Vietnam. Tme to cut the losses and let these people sort out their lives. It it NOT helping that the Americans are there. The Iraqis themselves say so. No.....I'm not naive. Are you?
Glad to know you think GWB is a fool. But continuing to support this 'war' at this point is going to result in more civilian deaths. Is oil that worth it?

Also, you can't win a guerrilla war, America.
Note in article above how many soldiers (US) are being killed by roadside bombs.

Note also that the Iraqis say they want the troops OUT. How many more guys have to get killed to satisfy Rummy and Bush?

Bush follower? No. Although seeing as how everything else you've foisted upon me is based upon speculation and outrageous leaps of the imagination, that statement should come as no surprise.



Actually, I'm well aware of the bloody history of the Christian church. It is utterly irrelevant to my original comment to you.



This makes me laugh. My response hinted at none of this. Perhaps you need to learn how to read for comprehension?



I fully admit that the Christians can be and are violent. It's you that appears to have difficulty accepting that so are Muslims. Why is that I wonder? Selective memory perhaps?

You sir, are an imbecile. I wash my hands of this ridiculousness. Good luck with your search for religion. I'd suggest you learn to properly reason before you reach whatever final conclusion awaits you.

I think our troops do need to get out.

Saddam was a dream at maintaining order in Iraq!

He made his own rules which no one else can do to restore order there.

Especially not America. That would be bad.

A guerilla war is a waste of time as Saddam would agree im sure.
Saddam only did what he had do to maintain order. If not......how do you dream of order occuring there?.........EVER?

It is one thing to point out failures and another thing entirely to formulate any answers.

Saddam never carried out guerilla warfare on his people and his technique worked beautifully. Not many seemed to care about his approach to order either.

Maybe we should do what he did? I think America could do an even better job at it without rules and kid gloves.....don't you guys?

questioner has trouble reading, so you must forgive him. His/her comprehension skills are absymal. He/she is possibly a third grade drop-out. You know how they resort to name calling when their argument is lost? The article I posted above says it all. America is fighting a guerilla war which cannot be won.
The Shiites are taking over as a reaction to being ruled by the Sunnis. Thank you, America, for creating a big mess. Of course, we have our Christian, ahem, president to thank. Now, there's an idiot. Hope you read my message HOMELAND SECURITY. I could care less.

Many Americans saw a mess to begin with and I guess some were/are hopeful to improve it while others are/were convinced of it's failure from the get go.

I know the President is not the only one to thank and that all of America cannot be thanked for the outcome either. It would be less than intelligent to think so, not to mention unfair.

I know nothing is possible without first believing and without the support of those who want to make things better.

Blame can occur when someone does something wrong and when someone fails to do what is right.

Maybe it's time we put Saddam back in power and just continue to turn a blind eye on the methods he uses.

It just goes to show that true peace can never be achieved by force or law and can only be achieved within the heart of the individual....one person at a time.

As I said before ..it is one thing to point out the failures and shortcomings of another...it is another thing to develop solutions. We all can see that which is wrong...the questions is...how to fix it or make it better.

Not to bail out America or the goofy President....there are better reasons to ask this No?

Solutions are needed....criticism abounds and comes from everywhere...
and solves nothing.

Course I assume when people criticize it's because they even care enough to seek a soulution....but, I could be wrong. Maybe some people are motivated by something far less than the situation at hand.....namely themselves!

Well, let's start with how Bushie became pres. Remember hanging chads? That whole thing was phony as a $3 bill. The second election was phony as well. Republican voting machines are not going to guarantee a fair election, don't you agree?

America has 300 million people. How many turned out to vote? If enough had, they might have had a different president. The mess in Iraq might not have happened. So the solution rests with who you elect. Too many apathetic people in America. That has to change, but until things get really nasty I don't see it happening. Do you?

And no, I don't think it's unfair to 'blame' the American people, us, for allowing this whole mess to develop. We certainly can't blame anyone else. If more than 1/3 had voted.........things would have turned out differently.

I would think most of us would have seen the parallels between Iraq and Vietnam, but when I was protesting the start of this war, people were too busy waving flags and calling me and some others unpatriotic. Now, I guess it's PC to do so.

Would a real Christian, one who models his behavior on that of Jesus of Nazareth, instigate Shock and Awe?

Absolutely not! Jesus, from what I know of the New Testament, believed in turning the other cheek, loving your enemies....sounds just like what Bush is doing, doesn't it?

Yeah, loving them to death.

Maybe we should leave the judgement to Jesus!?

Do you know anyone who is just like Jesus? I don't think he has an equal amongst men...do you?

I don't expect Bush to be JUST LIKE Christ. But just because one cannot perform surgery in a PERFECTLY sterile environment that's no excuse to do so in a sewer.

SSSNAP!

I just liked your wording, JLN.

(Snap - as in snapping ones fingers at the opponent as if to say "so there, take that.")

I'm not really all that hip. It's just what my kids say when someone gets off a good zinger.

Hey, watch it, people. You're talking about our president that talks to god it more than he talks to his biological father.