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Torture and misery in name of freedom

 
 
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:31 am
By Harold Pinter who yesterday won the Nobel Prize for Literature
Published: 14 October 2005.


The great poet Wilfred Owen articulated the tragedy, the horror - and indeed the pity - of war in a way no other poet has. Yet we have learnt nothing. Nearly 100 years after his death the world has become more savage, more brutal, more pitiless.

But the "free world" we are told, as embodied in the United States and Great Britain, is different to the rest of the world since our actions are dictated and sanctioned by a moral authority and a moral passion condoned by someone called God. Some people may find this difficult to comprehend but Osama Bin Laden finds it easy.

What would Wilfred Owen make of the invasion of Iraq? A bandit act, an act of blatant state terrorism, demonstrating absolute contempt for the concept of International Law. An arbitrary military action inspired by a series of lies upon lies and gross manipulation of the media and therefore of the public. An act intended to consolidate American military and economic control of the Middle East masquerading - as a last resort (all other justifications having failed to justify themselves) - as liberation. A formidable assertion of military force responsible for the death and mutilation of thousands upon thousands of innocent people.

An independent and totally objective account of the Iraqi civilian dead in the medical magazine The Lancet estimates that the figure approaches 100,000. But neither the US or the UK bother to count the Iraqi dead. As General Tommy Franks of US Central Command memorably said: "We don't do body counts".

We have brought torture, cluster bombs, depleted uranium, innumerable acts of random murder, misery and degradation to the Iraqi people and call it " bringing freedom and democracy to the Middle East". But, as we all know, we have not been welcomed with the predicted flowers. What we have unleashed is a ferocious and unremitting resistance, mayhem and chaos.

You may say at this point: what about the Iraqi elections? Well, President Bush himself answered this question when he said: "We cannot accept that there can be free democratic elections in a country under foreign military occupation". I had to read that statement twice before I realised that he was talking about Lebanon and Syria.

What do Bush and Blair actually see when they look at themselves in the mirror?

I believe Wilfred Owen would share our contempt, our revulsion, our nausea and our shame at both the language and the actions of the American and British governments.

Independent

Great Article.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,272 • Replies: 13
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:39 am
He's an anti-war libbie .... so of course he won the Nobel Prize. Obviously well-qualified.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:39 am
Re: Torture and misery in name of freedom
freedom4free wrote:

Great Article.


Indeed. And that's why I started a thread about it ealier here:"We have brought torture and misery in the name of freedom". :wink:
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:42 am
Oh, Sorry Walter, wish i could delete this now Crying or Very sad

Tico, its easy to say that. Everyone move their butt to Walters thread.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:45 am
Re: Torture and misery in name of freedom
freedom4free wrote:
By Harold Pinter who yesterday won the Nobel Prize for Literature
Published: 14 October 2005.



I believe Wilfred Owen would share our contempt, our revulsion, our nausea and our shame at both the language and the actions of the American and British governments.



First, who cares what he would think? Secondly, I don't think anyone, this particular writer included, should take the position that they can claim to know or believe what some dead guy would think.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:46 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Obviously well-qualified.


Yes.

Quote:
The Nobel Prize in Literature 2005 goes to Harold Pinter "who in his plays uncovers the precipice under everyday prattle and forces entry into oppression's closed rooms". »
Source
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:47 am
freedom4free wrote:
Tico, its easy to say that. .


Yes, I agree.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:48 am
freedom4free wrote:
Oh, Sorry Walter, wish i could delete this now Crying or Very sad


Well, it's okay, earlier threads mostly get 'lost' due to different times. (But therfore we could read that article ealier :wink: )
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:52 am
They probably see two middle aged gentlemen who believe they are doing what's best for future generations of Americans and Iraqi's.

Do the ends justify the means? That should be the question being asked. Do the ends of a free Iraq justify the means outlined above?

Let's look through history as a reference... starting with the United States. The revolutionary war lasted from 1775-1782 with the constitution ratified in 1787. Quite a bit of death and misery from war, but the ends have been well worth it!

The French revolution started 1789 and lasted until 1799 when the Napoleanonic time began. Lots of death, lots of misery, but a great country resulted.

I am sure Setanta could expand on many other examples of such incidents as this is his area of expertise, but as you can see, freedom has a price. We shall have to wait and see the results of our attempts at bringing freedom to the middle east. Many chnages have taken place since the invasion, many positive, many negative.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:54 am
Ticomaya wrote:
freedom4free wrote:
Tico, its easy to say that. .


Yes, I agree.


Good, we're getting somewhere now, would you also agree that it's easy to win The Nobel Prize ? Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 07:59 am
freedom4free wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
freedom4free wrote:
Tico, its easy to say that. .


Yes, I agree.


Good, we're getting somewhere now, would you also agree that it's easy to win The Nobel Prize ? Very Happy


No, because they only award one per year. But I think they only award to raving leftists, so that helps, huh?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 08:18 am
Ticomaya wrote:
But I think they only award to raving leftists, so that helps, huh?



1901 Literature, Sully Prudhomme
1902 Literature, Theodor Mommsen
1903 Literature, Bjørnstjerne Bjørnson
1904 Literature, José Echegaray
Literature, Frédéric Mistral
1905 Literature, Henryk Sienkiewicz
1906 Literature, Giosuè Carducci
1907 Literature, Rudyard Kipling
1908 Literature, Rudolf Eucken
1909 Literature, Selma Lagerlöf
1910 Literature, Paul Heyse
1911 Literature, Maurice Maeterlinck
1912 Literature, Gerhart Hauptmann
1913 Literature, Rabindranath Tagore
1915 Literature, Romain Rolland
1916 Literature, Verner von Heidenstam
1917 Literature, Karl Gjellerup
Literature, Henrik Pontoppidan
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1920 Literature, Knut Hamsun
1921 Literature, Anatole France
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1923 Literature, William Butler Yeats
1924 Literature, Wladyslaw Reymont
1925 Literature, George Bernard Shaw
1926 Literature, Grazia Deledda
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1932 Literature, John Galsworthy
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1936 Literature, Eugene O'Neill
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1938 Literature, Pearl Buck
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1966 Literature, Samuel Agnon
Literature, Nelly Sachs
1967 Literature, Miguel Angel Asturias
1968 Literature, Yasunari Kawabata
1969 Literature, Samuel Beckett
1970 Literature, Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
1971 Literature, Pablo Neruda
1972 Literature, Heinrich Böll
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1974 Literature, Eyvind Johnson
Literature, Harry Martinson
1975 Literature, Eugenio Montale
1976 Literature, Saul Bellow
1977 Literature, Vicente Aleixandre
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1980 Literature, Czeslaw Milosz
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1996 Literature, Wislawa Szymborska
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1999 Literature, Günter Grass
2000 Literature, Gao Xingjian
2001 Literature, V.S. Naipaul
2002 Literature, Imre Kertész
2003 Literature, J.M. Coetzee
2004 Literature, Elfriede Jelinek
2005 Literature, Harold Pinter
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 11:43 am
Ticomaya wrote:
But I think they only award to raving leftists, so that helps, huh?

Well, they only award the Nobel Prize for Economics to raving righties, so it's only fair.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2005 12:00 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
But I think they only award to raving leftists, so that helps, huh?

Well, they only award the Nobel Prize for Economics to raving righties, so it's only fair.


Yes, and makes sense as well.
0 Replies
 
 

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