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TV Censorship

 
 
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 06:22 pm
As I was watching Desperate Housewives last night I started to think about that whole debacle last year with them getting so many fines from the FCC and parent activist groups. I can see the concern of some of their content but I'm of the school of thought that government control over what we watch on TV is bad. I just think that parental control is prob the way to go - anyone agree? Interesting topic and many sides to it. I'm online right now looking for info on groups who advocate for the other side - so far found a group called TV Watch - anyone familiar?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,511 • Replies: 25
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Nietzsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 11:28 pm
Television and its "negative influence" is just a grain of sand on a beach of this experience called life. I don't mean to be melodramatic there, but c'mon people: TV is a part of life, and life is dangerous, exciting, boring, etc. etc. etc.!! TV is just another reflection of it, as is art, literature, and music.

Parents or "groups" that expect TV (or any other form of art, for that matter) to police iteself are sheltered, inexperienced, and frankly not worth my mental energy to try and psychoanalyze.
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flushd
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 10:30 am
All in all, TV is a she-beast. Turn on the tube, there's not much at all that isn't offensive! Honestly. TV is basically crap; and that's fine as long as people recognize it as such.

I would assume that it would be adults watching Desperate Housewives. If not, well, then, don't let your kids watch that drivvle! Or, lobby for better programing choices. But censoring is silly.
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 10:36 am
I am in shock, absolute shock! I never knew anyone before who would admit to watching Desperate Housewives (subtitle of the show, Desperate Wanna-be Actresses Looking for a break and not getting one)
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dancingnancy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2005 12:03 pm
flushd wrote:
All in all, TV is a she-beast. Turn on the tube, there's not much at all that isn't offensive! Honestly. TV is basically crap; and that's fine as long as people recognize it as such.

I would assume that it would be adults watching Desperate Housewives. If not, well, then, don't let your kids watch that drivvle! Or, lobby for better programing choices. But censoring is silly.


Exactly. I mean - shows that aren't family oriented typically come on later, and there is a rating system in place so that parents can make educated decisions about what kids should watch. Now parents aren't always around - but that's why there is the vchip and cable controls etc. The website for this group TV Watch I found has all kinds of information and tools to help parents with this so that the government doesn't end up censoring everything. I mean - with that Desperate Housewives thing last year, the Parents Television Council had people writing letters to advertisers who then probably put pressure on the show - it could have been pulled off the air due to lack of funding - that's crazy don't you think?
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KetchupLady
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2005 09:51 am
What I think is outrageous was when networks were not showing Saving Private Ryan b/c they were afraid of the FCC. There is a fine line between creating rules for content to keep total garbage from getting on tv during prime time and creating a world where stations are actually afraid to show decent material that is historically accurate...
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2005 09:55 am
They can't have the f-word thrown around in Prime Time on a broadcast network. If they want to do it on a premiere network (Bravo, A&E; ones not included in everyones basic cable) it's a little easier but NBC, ABC, CBS and the like are under much more strict regualtions. The sexual innuendo age has been in full boom lately, ala Desperate Housewives and the late Sex in the City. But notice the difference between those two shows. One is on a broadcast network and is much much more tame than the one on the premium channel, HBO. It's what you pay for.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2005 09:59 am
Not to mention, if the FCC is only reacting to demands of parents and people who think it's the FCC's job to watch what their kids see. So, don't blame the networks or the FCC. Blame the parents. The networks would be more than happy to show more sex, violence and language because that's what sells but they know they can't get away with it because of those people who whine and cry all day about the negative effects of tv.
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dancingnancy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2005 12:52 pm
Quote:
What I think is outrageous was when networks were not showing Saving Private Ryan b/c they were afraid of the FCC. There is a fine line between creating rules for content to keep total garbage from getting on tv during prime time and creating a world where stations are actually afraid to show decent material that is historically accurate...


I know!! I didn't know that until recently but I read it on the TV Watch website - they have a list of all kinds of content that has been withheld and decisions made, etc, due to FCC fines etc. It was fascinating and appauling.

Quote:
Not to mention, if the FCC is only reacting to demands of parents and people who think it's the FCC's job to watch what their kids see. So, don't blame the networks or the FCC. Blame the parents. The networks would be more than happy to show more sex, violence and language because that's what sells but they know they can't get away with it because of those people who whine and cry all day about the negative effects of tv.


As for the point about the FCC not being the culprit - fair enough - they even say that 90% of the indecency complaints come from the Parents TV Council - but the PTC doesn't represent all parents so I don't think you can say to "blame the parents," know what I mean? I'm sure this group TV Watch has the support of many parents too - proving that not all are complaining that something needs to be done about the content of network programming these days.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2005 07:21 pm
dancingnancy wrote:
Exactly. I mean - shows that aren't family oriented typically come on later, and there is a rating system in place so that parents can make educated decisions about what kids should watch. Now parents aren't always around - but that's why there is the vchip and cable controls etc.


This is a little bit of the whole chicken/egg thing.

The government shouldn't regulate TV content and parents should do it themselves but the TV ratings and VChip came about because the industry itself wasn't doing anything to help parents control the content.

The only reason ratings are now displayed and the V-Chip exist is because the producers of programs continued to push the envelope of what was permissible under the existing FCC rules. In effect the idea from the producers is "Look, we're going to voilate the FCC rules but hey! It's ok beacuse were going to warn people that we're doing it."

What groups like TV Watch fail to tell you is that the ratings are 100% voluntary and mean absolutely nothing. The show's producers decide for themselves what rating to slap on their show. They also neglect to mention that most TVs that are more than 3 or 4 years old don't have a V-Chip in them and that the V-Chip only works if the appropriate signal is broadcast with the program (which isn't always the case).

Your Desperate Housewives is rated as "TV-PG" - the same rating as "Everybody Loves Raymond", "Cheers" and "The Drew Cary Show". So if a parents wants to make use of the V-Chip to block Desperate Housewives they end up blocking thes other programs which many would find much less objectionable. The VChip is a farce.
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2005 07:20 am
Bottom line is television sucks anyway...seldom is there a program worth watching and if the only hook is filthy language and meaningless smut then one really needs to wonder what the deeper problem is with people. Why are people more interested in hearing vulgarities and seeing gratuitous sex and violence in place of solid plot lines?
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dancingnancy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2005 11:12 am
fishin' wrote:
dancingnancy wrote:
Exactly. I mean - shows that aren't family oriented typically come on later, and there is a rating system in place so that parents can make educated decisions about what kids should watch. Now parents aren't always around - but that's why there is the vchip and cable controls etc.


This is a little bit of the whole chicken/egg thing.

The government shouldn't regulate TV content and parents should do it themselves but the TV ratings and VChip came about because the industry itself wasn't doing anything to help parents control the content.

The only reason ratings are now displayed and the V-Chip exist is because the producers of programs continued to push the envelope of what was permissible under the existing FCC rules. In effect the idea from the producers is "Look, we're going to voilate the FCC rules but hey! It's ok beacuse were going to warn people that we're doing it."

What groups like TV Watch fail to tell you is that the ratings are 100% voluntary and mean absolutely nothing. The show's producers decide for themselves what rating to slap on their show. They also neglect to mention that most TVs that are more than 3 or 4 years old don't have a V-Chip in them and that the V-Chip only works if the appropriate signal is broadcast with the program (which isn't always the case).

Your Desperate Housewives is rated as "TV-PG" - the same rating as "Everybody Loves Raymond", "Cheers" and "The Drew Cary Show". So if a parents wants to make use of the V-Chip to block Desperate Housewives they end up blocking thes other programs which many would find much less objectionable. The VChip is a farce.


Those ratings don't mean "nothing" - and I don't think TV Watch is claiming they're the end-all be-all. I think the ratings are meant to be a guide to helping parents judge the content of a show. As for the Vchip - it would make sense, to me, that as a parent I would choose not to have my child watch The Drew Carey Show either so I wouldn't mind that the vchip blocked those shows too. Drew Carey needs to be no where near my children.

Also - I don't think that they're saying the ratings and vchip are the answer - the greater goal is to put the power in the hands of the parents and help, as best as possible, to arm them with knowledge. But back in my day, my parents had the cable channel block MTV (which TV Watch also mentions as a method) and other channels they didn't want me to watch. Folks without a vchip can certainly do that - you see what I mean?
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2005 12:06 pm
How bout not sitting your kid in front of the tv like a babysitter? Or limited tv time? Maybe parents shouldn't put tvs in their kids bedrooms. Or subscribe to objectional channels (the REALLY objectional ones).

I don't know if this is possible but if you have Tivo and put a parental block on a show, can it still record it to be unlocked and watched later?
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2005 12:11 pm
Sturgis wrote:
Bottom line is television sucks anyway...seldom is there a program worth watching and if the only hook is filthy language and meaningless smut then one really needs to wonder what the deeper problem is with people. Why are people more interested in hearing vulgarities and seeing gratuitous sex and violence in place of solid plot lines?


Most programming out there is without excessive sex and vulgar language. The top shows in prime time right now (10/1-10/23) are, in this order:


1 CSI (28,477,000)
2 Desperate Housewives (25,216,000)
3 Without A Trace (19,819,000)
4 Lost (21,381,000)
5 CSI: Miami (17,914,000)
6 Grey's Anatomy (18,000,000)
7 NCIS (17,691,000)
8 Fox World Series Game 2 (17,190,000)
9 Commander In Chief (16,301,000)
10 60 Minutes (16,017,000)


What's wrong with all these shows, bar Desperate Housewives which we know to be toeing the line?
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KetchupLady
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2005 12:47 pm
Agreed, network programming is pretty tame and is more innuendo, it's really the cable shows you have to watch out for. Shows like NipTuck (which I LOVE) come very close to the line of needing to be on HBO. It's also on at 10pm, but some of the stuff they get away with is amazing! (It's amazingly good tv!) - - perhaps instead of scaring the you know what out of tv stations the gov't should concentrate on reinforcing good parenting!
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Oct, 2005 07:45 am
dancingnancy wrote:
Those ratings don't mean "nothing" - and I don't think TV Watch is claiming they're the end-all be-all.


The ratings are entirely arbitrary which makes them useless.

Quote:
I think the ratings are meant to be a guide to helping parents judge the content of a show.


Of course. But that doesn't mean that they work well.

Quote:
As for the Vchip - it would make sense, to me, that as a parent I would choose not to have my child watch The Drew Carey Show either so I wouldn't mind that the vchip blocked those shows too. Drew Carey needs to be no where near my children.


That may be but it misses the point totally. If I, as a parent, try to rely on the V-Chip I set the programming level and with one change I block Desperate Housewives and Everybody Loves Raymond. There is no granularity with the system. It blocks all shows above the rating level I select.

The V-Chip doesn't allow blocking one show with a TV-PG rating while letting them view another with the same rating. There are some 500 programs broadcast that carry the TV-PG rating. The VChip doesn't allow a parent to block 6 of them and still get the rest without someone manually changing the VChip setting every hour. It's an all-or-nothing technology.

Quote:
Also - I don't think that they're saying the ratings and vchip are the answer - the greater goal is to put the power in the hands of the parents and help, as best as possible, to arm them with knowledge.


Of course they aren't saying it's the end all-be all. They'd be laughed out of the business if they did. But they are arguing (just as you have) that there is little need for government regulation because they have alternatives in place. What they neglect to mention is that the ratings and V-Chip only exist because the industry ran scared when the regulators threatened to clamp down on their abuses of the existing rules. If it wasn't for the government regulation the ratings and VChip wouldn't exist.

Quote:
But back in my day, my parents had the cable channel block MTV (which TV Watch also mentions as a method) and other channels they didn't want me to watch. Folks without a vchip can certainly do that - you see what I mean?


And when MTV first came out that might not have been such a big deal. At the time all they showed were music videos so the parents pretty much knew exactly what was on there 24 hours a day. Is that still the case? Comedy Central for example, has a lot of shows designed for kids that air during the mornings and afternoons. If I call the cable company and have the channel blocked because of what might be objectionable evening content I don't get the daytime programming - which is designed for kids and totally acceptable - either.

But Desperate Housewives isn't on a cable only channel either. Can I call ABC and have them block the radiowaves their local station broadcasts from entering my home?
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Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 02:16 am
Here in the UK, there is a voluntary "watershed" of 9pm, which was agreed upon by both sides ie Government and broadcasters.
Before this time, all programmes should be considered as suitable for family viewing, using common sense as the rule of thumb.
After this time, stronger language can be used, and "soft" sexual content included.

As a result, any swear words or naughty bits before 9pm, stick out like a sore thumb, which results in complaints flooding in to our TV "Watchdog", who take up the matter with the relevant broadcasting company.
These complaints are then used once again, when the offending company negotiates the renewal of their broadcasting license.

It seems to work, and everyone (on both sides) knows that it is put there for a valid reason.

Usually, by about 10pm, it is a case of "anything goes" really, apart from graphic sex. I just wish that they would sometimes cut out the gratuitous violence as well.

The only problem I could see with introducing this into U.S. TV, would be that you have several time zones.......maybe technology could get round this somehow?

With this 9pm barrier, the parents do not need to worry too much about the adult content of TV in the early evening, and then the ball is firmly in their court once 9pm has arrived. If they allow their children to watch TV after this time, then it is up to the parents to monitor the programmes being watched.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 02:32 am
Well, we've got some "talk shows" ('my friend is cheating', a couple of 'court shows' etc) who even have a more vulgar language than those after ... ten o'clock, I think is the limit.

Similar to the UK, we have got a voluntary selfregulation of television.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:48 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, we've got some "talk shows" ('my friend is cheating', a couple of 'court shows' etc) who even have a more vulgar language than those after ... ten o'clock, I think is the limit.

Similar to the UK, we have got a voluntary selfregulation of television.


yeah, 10 in the morning. Laughing
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 05:51 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
Here in the UK, there is a voluntary "watershed" of 9pm, which was agreed upon by both sides ie Government and broadcasters.
Before this time, all programmes should be considered as suitable for family viewing, using common sense as the rule of thumb.
After this time, stronger language can be used, and "soft" sexual content included.

As a result, any swear words or naughty bits before 9pm, stick out like a sore thumb, which results in complaints flooding in to our TV "Watchdog", who take up the matter with the relevant broadcasting company.
These complaints are then used once again, when the offending company negotiates the renewal of their broadcasting license.

It seems to work, and everyone (on both sides) knows that it is put there for a valid reason.

Usually, by about 10pm, it is a case of "anything goes" really, apart from graphic sex. I just wish that they would sometimes cut out the gratuitous violence as well.

The only problem I could see with introducing this into U.S. TV, would be that you have several time zones.......maybe technology could get round this somehow?


Your system isn't very different than our's in the US. Our FCC is very similar to your ITC as the regulating government bodies.

We have the same sort of "watershed" time (10pm) and the same sort of complaint system. The only real major difference I can find between our FCC and your ITC is that our FCC can levy fines against broadcasters that violate the broadcast rules. It appears that the ITC's only enforcement mechanism is to refuse to renew a broadcasters license when it comes up for renewal (which our FCC can also do...).

Quote:
With this 9pm barrier, the parents do not need to worry too much about the adult content of TV in the early evening, and then the ball is firmly in their court once 9pm has arrived. If they allow their children to watch TV after this time, then it is up to the parents to monitor the programmes being watched.


If that were the case here there wouldn't be much complaint. The broadcasters have started a voluntary rating system and they (and many of their supporters) think that as long as they rate the programs and have the VChip technology available the 10pm watershed point should just be ignored. That's were the problems come in.
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