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I'm Not Really Sure but Maybe You Are

Forums: Spirituality And Religion, Religion, Terrorism, Spirituality, Racial Profiling
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:23 pm
Thank you MA.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:28 pm
No problem Mesquite.

Frank,

Well, at least you finally admit that you don't really respect anyone's right to their religious beliefs. At least, that is how I am reading that.
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Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:32 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
No problem Mesquite.

Frank,

Well, at least you finally admit that you don't really respect anyone's right to their religious beliefs. At least, that is how I am reading that.


Yeah, that sort of wording is more or less what a few posters are getting at here MA.

Quote:

Well...I not only do not agree that we should respect other people's "beliefs"...I often do not respect (in any sense of that word) their rights to hold those "beliefs."

There are people who "believe" it is okay to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings.

I do not repect those beliefs...and I do not respect their rights to hold them.


I don't see in there where he mentions anything about religious beliefs. Sorry to butt in.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:38 pm
Questioner,

You aren't butting in. Frank and I have been discussing this for quite awhile in many different threads. He understands that I am speaking of religious freedom right to beliefs and I understand that he wants freedom from religion. As long as he wants freedom from religion, he is not going to respect the rights of anyone wanting religious freedom (IMO).

Frank, I feel you are playing with words again. Look, you do whatever makes you happy, ok? Just don't expect me to be happy if you try to take away my rights or if you ridicule me.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:21 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Frank,

Well, at least you finally admit that you don't really respect anyone's right to their religious beliefs. At least, that is how I am reading that.


Actually...what I wrote was:

Quote:
Well...I not only do not agree that we should respect other people's "beliefs"...I often do not respect (in any sense of that word) their rights to hold those "beliefs."

There are people who "believe" it is okay to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings.

I do not repect those beliefs...and I do not respect their rights to hold them.

Call me a crud for feeling that way...but...


After reading those words over...I realize they could be misinterpreted...and probably should have written that first sentence differently. Here is probably the better way of saying what I was attempting to say:

Well...I not only do not agree that we should always respect other people's "beliefs" (many times I do not)...I often do not even respect (in any sense of that word) their rights to hold those "beliefs."

That would make more sense in light of what follows...which was an example of a "belief" is do not respect...nor even do I respect the person's right to hold that "belief"...(the object of my comments in this post)...

...which was:

"There are people who "believe" it is okay to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings.

I do not repect those beliefs...and I do not respect their rights to hold them. "



Sorry I worded that poorly. In no way should what I wrote be interpreted that I don't really respect anyone's right to their religious beliefs.

We have indeed discussed this many times, MA...and I have very often mentioned that my late mother was a very religious person; one of my brothers is religious; and several of my aunts and cousins are also. And I have several very close friends who are religious also.

I love them...and I do respect their rights to hold their religious views. I respect your right to hold a religious view.

Here on the Internet...in a discussion forum on the issue...when presented with arguments that I do not think merit respect...I express disdain and contempt.

Sorry if that bothers you.

But you have not presented any arguments that cause me to think there is anything wrong with my doing so.

And no argument you have made causes me to suspect it is necessary to respect other people's "beliefs" or "opinions" as a matter of course. We have to pick and choose which we will respect...and which we will hold in contempt.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:38 pm
I am glad you restated that. It makes more sense to me.

I guess the thing that bothers me is once we start deciding which rights not to respect is when we start taking away those rights.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:03 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
I am glad you restated that. It makes more sense to me.

I guess the thing that bothers me is once we start deciding which rights not to respect is when we start taking away those rights.


Well...I think we all have to make individual decisions on which "beliefs" we want to respect...and which we want to scorn.

I think one mark of human intelligence...is that humans can make those kinds of decisions. Sometimes I agree with the decisions others make...sometimes I disagree.

Naturally...I always agree with the ones I make.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:06 pm
Well Frank, I have to give you that you have an engaging sense of humor. I may not agree with a lot of what you say or think, but you do make me laugh!

How was the golfing?
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:25 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
What MommaAngel fails to understand is that she has NO RIGHT to impose her religious views on EVERYONE ELSE through the power of the government--e.g., through OUR official (mandated by law) pledge to OUR flag and to OUR country.

When she claims she doesn't understand the BIG DEAL about two words (under God) in OUR national pledge and when people try to explain the BIG DEAL to her, she gets offended, accuses people of being rude to her, and then opens another thread claiming people are attacking her faith and attacking her as a Christian.

If MA cannot tolerate having her point of view challenged and debated, perhaps she should hone her debating skills or stay out of the fray.


Being a Canadian, I am not sure. Does the American penny still have "In God We Trust" stamped on it?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:28 pm
Sure does, as does all our currency.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:29 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Sure does, as does all our currency.



Hmmmm. Just one of those things that makes one go Hmmmmm
Shocked
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:32 pm
Intrepid, a quick Google search shows that while "E Pluribus Unum" was stamped onto the earliest coins we produced for ourselves, "In God We Trust" wasn't added until 1955. Funny how that co8incides with the timing of the Pledge of Alleignece change.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:32 pm
LOL. It sure does make one go hmmmmmmmmmm.

I just looked up the e pluribus unum. It said that the motto was changed to In God We Trust long before 1955. Unless I am reading that wrong? Here's the link to it:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:38 pm
It does make me think. It makes me think that our founding fathers believed our country should be made up of a variety of people - the melting pot idea embodied on our coinage and NOT that we should all believe in god (the christian one or otherwise).
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:38 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
Sure does, as does all our currency.



Hmmmm. Just one of those things that makes one go Hmmmmm
Shocked

Why would that be Intrepid?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:42 pm
I usually go Hmmmmmmmm about the time I realize I have been screwed by a vacuum cleaner salesman.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:43 pm
Yowch, that must be painful, Dys.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:46 pm
dyslexia wrote:
I usually go Hmmmmmmmm about the time I realize I have been screwed by a vacuum cleaner salesman.


Did you buy the vacuum? :wink:
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:48 pm
Yeah really, the communist atheist bastiches. WE had to show them stinkin' reds that our nukes are god-blessed with 10 x's the kill power of their pagan nukes and that's why we have one
"under god".
Vote early, vote often, vote Kucinich.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 07:48 pm
So, to correct myself.... the words "In God We Trust" first appeared on u.s. coins in 1864, but wasn't legislated to be stamped on all coins until the height of McCarthyism in 1955. Still, how many of our founding fathers were around in 1864?
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