What Made This Thread Die A Quck Death?

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Hi Everyone,

Awhile back I posed a question to everyone. Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

After receiving a few comments, we attempted to set up a scenario and build from it. I have it listed here:

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Here is the scenario. Remember, this is all for the sake of a discussion. None of it is to be taken as a factual country, etc.

There is a country called the United People's Nation. This is a nation of relatively good, hard working families. There are different classes, as with any culture, but everyone has the same opportunity for education in the United People's Nation. There are only three laws in this country. Your basic needs are met. So, let's concentrate only on these three laws for right now.

1. You can never kill another human being unless in self-defense of yourself or your family.

2. You must always consider the feelings of others and respect them, refraining from calling them names or belittling them.

3. Principles before personalities always applies in any situation. The decisions are made on what is good for the whole of this nation.

In order to be a citizen of the United People's Nation, you must take an oath that you will uphold these laws.

Now, I realize these are rather "different" kinds of laws. But, just for the sake of argument, these are the laws. There is one punishment for breaking the laws. If you break the laws and it is proven in court you have broken the laws, you get a mandatory life sentence. A harsh sentence I admit, but, just for the sake of argument, remember?

Now, you have a decision to make. Do you want to be a part of this Nation? Are you willing to abide by the laws and if you break them, suffer the consequences?

Remember, I realize this is a totally "out there" scenario. It is intended to be. I am so interested in how people feel about being the problem or the solution.

So, any comments? Questions? Problems maybe?

I am very, very curious as to why this just ended. Is it because no on thinks it is possible to work this scenario?

Is it because you don't want to go along with the basics of the scenario even if you are given the opportunity to change things?

Is it because you don't feel it would make a difference in today's world?

I would appreciate any comments on this!

Thanx,

Momma Angel

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Hmm, I didn't see the first one (which could be another reason it "died a quick death" -- maybe people just didn't see it) but this one feels like a trap to me. Despite (maybe because of?) the disclaimers, it feels like after I say my piece, my words will be used to make some other point.

Overall, my initial reaction is that the discussion seems likely to be steered in a certain direction rather than genuinely freewheeling, and that I am wary of which direction that may be.

Doesn't mean I WON'T participate, and normally it would mean I'd just move on and maybe keep an eye on it and see if it goes somewhere interesting, but as an answer to your question.

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Re: What Made This Thread Die A Quck Death?
Hey MA. Let me take a whack at it:

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1. You can never kill another human being unless in self-defense of yourself or your family.

"The old man riding his bike down the street was aiming straight for my son. I had to kill him!"
That rule is fairly wide open to interpretation. Which means at some point whatever judicators exist in this country would have to expound fairly heavily upon rule #1.

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2. You must always consider the feelings of others and respect them, refraining from calling them names or belittling them.

Good luck. While it is a good idea to always treat everyone with respect, there is absolutely no way to either keep people from abusing others, nor to enforce this rule if they had. It most often would boil down to one person's word against anothers. Who do you believe?

Also, as above, the rule would be fairly open to interpretation. What constitutes name calling/belittling? If I walked in and said "Hey Girl/Guy, how's it going?" Someone could take offense, or even be mistaken for a girl or guy and all of a sudden you've broken rule #2.

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3. Principles before personalities always applies in any situation. The decisions are made on what is good for the whole of this nation.

That is similar to what we have now in the US. It's led to such stellar historic decisions as Japanese internment during WWII, the current war in Iraq, government evesdropping and spying on it's citizens etc.

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Now, I realize these are rather "different" kinds of laws. But, just for the sake of argument, these are the laws. There is one punishment for breaking the laws. If you break the laws and it is proven in court you have broken the laws, you get a mandatory life sentence. A harsh sentence I admit, but, just for the sake of argument, remember?

I can't see how anyone would "want" to live in such a place really. However, you would most likely not be able to "prove" anything. Then, as now, people would feel cheated if known "comitters" walked free. With that and the inability to label them a "criminal" without breaking a rule yourself you'd have a nice recipe for riot fairly quickly.

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Now, you have a decision to make. Do you want to be a part of this Nation? Are you willing to abide by the laws and if you break them, suffer the consequences?

Absolutely not.

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Remember, I realize this is a totally "out there" scenario. It is intended to be. I am so interested in how people feel about being the problem or the solution.

I don't see how answering the above questions makes me either of the two. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

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Because people get bored easily. And the average adult attention span is something like 14 minutes so be glad you grabbed them for longer than that.

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Momma Angel wrote:

I am very, very curious as to why this just ended

You booted Frank out and it died of boredom. :wink:

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Hi Sozobe, Questioner, and Bella Dea,

I promise you there are no tricks, traps, or smoking mirrors. I am just curious if, we as human beings, can 'start over'. Ok, we know a lot of the mistakes that have been made to date that have brought us diversity. What I am curious about is do peple feel that they can make a change? We all have ideas of how to make the world a better place in which to live. I am just interested to see how we can make this come about.

I wrote those three rules (the UPN 3 we called them) vaguley and yes, definitely open to interpretation. But, if you will notice, I also left an opening to change the rules just as long as you didn't break them trying to do. So, if you can just use common courtesies as a basis for treating others, then you can lobby to change the laws.

You or anyone is more than welcome to try to rewrite the laws. I invite rewrites! I want rewrites! I want to know if we can actually come together, believing so many different ways, and actually build something here.

I believe it's possible. I think it's a matter of (IMO) deciding whether or not we can all put aside (just for awhile) our differences and write our own constitution. One that we can all come to a compromise on, if you will.

I would love to try to do this. I would love it if you would participate. I have had contact with the three of you and I believe you would be great at coming up with some solutions.

Sozobe, I promise you I will not use your words to make some other point. You were a great help to me and I would not repay that kindness with deception.

I would just like to see if we can do it, or if we fail to do it, where it might break down.

Momma Angel

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Questioner's response is the kind that, if I was waiting to see how things developed, would make me more interested.

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several, including meself, we booted along with Frank mostly I guess because MA didn't think we "played nice with others"

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Dys,

What say we try again?

Sozobe,

I agree. I'd love more responses like Questioner's!

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Well you see MA when you pose what might be interesting topics ofr discussion you have to expect some/many/all of the responses are not going to be of your liking. If I remember correctly the topic you refer to was very early in your a2k expericce and you really had no idea who or what personalities you would be contending with and became somewhat huffy in not getting what you considered appropiate responses. I think you have mellowed and become less immediately judgemental of late which certainly helps to encourage lively discussion. On the other hand, both frank and meself can be obnoxious bastiches on ocassion.

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Sounds like socialism Mamma.

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it died because there were no naked people it.

simple as that.

>giggle<

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Get naked Mamma.

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LOL. Ok, while I have mellowed, I haven't gotten to the point of taking off my clothes and getting naked. LMBO.

But Dys, I understand and I agree. I feel I can probably do this much better now. I don't have that particular button sticking out, so to speak.

So, I am willing to give it a shot and actually, I think you and Frank and others can really bring some very valid points and views to this.

It just seems that we are all somewhat dissatisfied with quite a few of the laws and such and I think we could probably come to some kind of a compromise to where everyone could at least live with it.

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Sorry Mamma. This is a good thread. Your just so nice we have to mess with you.

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Principles before personalities sounds a little too conformist / Stepfordish for my taste. Who wants everyone all happy all the time? Wouldn't seem sincere or honest which in turn isn't honest with ones self, and all that represing of feelings... No thanks.

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Amigo wrote:

Sorry Mamma. This is a good thread. Your just so nice we have to mess with you.

Thanx Amigo. I don't mind that kind of messing with me. I'm glad you are joing in here. You are, aren't you?

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I read somewhere that 1% of the population is responsible for 90% of change. I heard this a couple of times but I don't remember the last figure or if it's true.

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Squinney Wrote:

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Principles before personalities sounds a little too conformist / Stepfordish for my taste. Who wants everyone all happy all the time? Wouldn't seem sincere or honest which in turn isn't honest with ones self, and all that represing of feelings... No thanks.

So even if it was just say, for one day you had to follow that, you wouldn't do it? The object is to get enough people to just agree to follow those three rules for a very short period of time until we can write new rules/laws.

So, yes, it may seem as though one might not be being true to themselves. But, for the common good, can you put that aside long enough to rewrite that law? How would you have that law written? What do you feel it should say or be?

That's the point of this whole exercise ~to come up with laws that we can all come to a compromise on. There are so many differing views and I think we can take the best parts of all those views and mesh them into something.

It will take some work, yes. It will take patience, yes. But, I believe people still can do this.

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Momma Angel wrote:

So even if it was just say, for one day you had to follow that, you wouldn't do it? The object is to get enough people to just agree to follow those three rules for a very short period of time until we can write new rules/laws.

Not wouldn't, couldn't. I believe, given the nature of man, that it would be physically impossible for a society forced to follow those rules to do so without massive failures.

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So, yes, it may seem as though one might not be being true to themselves. But, for the common good, can you put that aside long enough to rewrite that law? How would you have that law written? What do you feel it should say or be?

We can barely get by with the myriad laws we have here in the US. The rewrite of those three laws would be very, very extensive. And I don't believe I can even think of a starting place.

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That's the point of this whole exercise ~to come up with laws that we can all come to a compromise on. There are so many differing views and I think we can take the best parts of all those views and mesh them into something.

Taking the best parts is all well and good, but you can't neglect the worst parts, which are the parts that will surface more often than not to wreak havok with this little society.

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It will take some work, yes. It will take patience, yes. But, I believe people still can do this.

Sorry, but I simply have to disagree with this. Man is to chaotic by nature to successfully live under such demanding laws. There is simply no way this could happen.

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What Made This Thread Die A Quck Death?

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