What Made This Thread Die A Quck Death?

Given your reply, does that mean you give up? You have no hope that this might work for even a short period of time?

I am not trying to be smart-mouthed or anything here Questioner. I am just curious as to even if you are given the opportunity to immediately change a rule you wouldn't even want to try.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Given your reply, does that mean you give up? You have no hope that this might work for even a short period of time?

I am not trying to be smart-mouthed or anything here Questioner. I am just curious as to even if you are given the opportunity to immediately change a rule you wouldn't even want to try.

I'm always up for a good beating, so i'd give it a try. However I believe that given the first 3 stipulations, the rest of the debate will progress along the lines of how it would be impossible to live by those three, and the rewriting would end up looking nothing like what was originally put forth. If that's something you're cool with then this could be a success.

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Questioner wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Given your reply, does that mean you give up? You have no hope that this might work for even a short period of time?

I am not trying to be smart-mouthed or anything here Questioner. I am just curious as to even if you are given the opportunity to immediately change a rule you wouldn't even want to try.

I'm always up for a good beating, so i'd give it a try. However I believe that given the first 3 stipulations, the rest of the debate will progress along the lines of how it would be impossible to live by those three, and the rewriting would end up looking nothing like what was originally put forth. If that's something you're cool with then this could be a success.

Hey, I am up for anything. So, let's do this. Those that are participating right now, if you have a problem with rule one, let's write up what each of us think that rule should be. We can discuss it and go from there? It's a place to start. I promise you, I will not take offense at any change in that law! They were written that way so they would invite change.

So, anyone else up for this? I hope so!

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dyslexia wrote:

Well you see MA when you pose what might be interesting topics ofr discussion you have to expect some/many/all of the responses are not going to be of your liking. If I remember correctly the topic you refer to was very early in your a2k expericce and you really had no idea who or what personalities you would be contending with and became somewhat huffy in not getting what you considered appropiate responses. I think you have mellowed and become less immediately judgemental of late which certainly helps to encourage lively discussion. On the other hand, both frank and meself can be obnoxious bastiches on ocassion.

Yes.

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Amigo wrote:

I read somewhere that 1% of the population is responsible for 90% of change. I heard this a couple of times but I don't remember the last figure or if it's true.

Actually...94.6% of all statistics are made up right on the spot.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

dyslexia wrote:
Well you see MA when you pose what might be interesting topics ofr discussion you have to expect some/many/all of the responses are not going to be of your liking. If I remember correctly the topic you refer to was very early in your a2k expericce and you really had no idea who or what personalities you would be contending with and became somewhat huffy in not getting what you considered appropiate responses. I think you have mellowed and become less immediately judgemental of late which certainly helps to encourage lively discussion. On the other hand, both frank and meself can be obnoxious bastiches on ocassion.

Yes.

LMBO! Frank, where have you been? I have been waiting for you to show up here!

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Just discovered the thread.

REQUEST: Please furnish me with a link to the other thread. I cannot find it...and I really want to see how Law #2 was worded in the original thread. It seems to be different here.

I still think Law #2 is a non-starter...but I want to take a look and see if there has been a change.

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Frank,

Actually, those were taken right off that other thread but, I will put the link here anyway. I know you think Law 2 won't work, so just remember you get to change it! We are working on changing Law 1 right now. Here is the link:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56232&highlight=

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Hey all.
Well, I did happen to spot the thread "are you part of the solution or part of the problem". I passed it over after skimming it (to answer why I didn't participate in the thread) bc it smacked to me of railroading.
No offense Mama, just my personal impression.

I do believe (and know!) that I can make a change in the world.

However; in regards to the scenario in this thread.....
I simply would not WANT to be a part of that nation.
I would probably become an outcast and flee the United Nations of Peoples or whatever it's called.

I am interested in seeing where this is going though :wink:

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Hi flushd!

How are you doing? Hey, no offense taken. I understand how you might have felt that it was a railroading. You aren't the only one that felt that way. I promise you that it is not. I am just very big on finding solutions and it seems so many have so many ideas that we can put them to some use! I am glad you will be watching though. Jump in anytime!

I think it would be awesome if we could make this work!

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My response on the other thread was lost amid the bickering, so here it is again:

Your laws are impossible to enforce since anyone doing so would be in violation of rule #2.

A society which requires indiscriminate respect loses its ability to use contempt and scorn to control the behavior of those who might violate social norms.

You cannot legislate respect. As someone else pointed out, respect must be earned. What you can legislate is politeness.

It would be virtually impossible to reach a consensus on what is "good" for your nation. So who makes the final decisions on rule #3, and what happens to those who do not agree? Are they forced to accept the will of the majority even if it is detrimental to them personally? Will they be thrown into jail for expressing politically incorrect opinions?

Unles everyone in your country is perfect, I would be unable to abide by rule #2. Particularly when driving. :wink:

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Hi Terry,

Ok, so we need to rewrite that law too! We are working on rewriting law number one. I and glad to see that the poll is showing 66% believe one can make a change! So, let's do it! Rewrite those laws! LOL

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Momma Angel, how about this -- can you say what your goal is? To come up with a utopia that has only three rules, and what those rules would be?

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Amigo wrote:

I read somewhere that 1% of the population is responsible for 90% of change. I heard this a couple of times but I don't remember the last figure or if it's true.

I think I read somewhere also that 54% of statistics are made up on the spot.

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I have the same problem with Law #2 as I had earlier. Here is a part of what I wrote in the first thread:

Quote:

Hummmm....so if you encounter someone like Adolph Hitler or Saddam Hussein or Idi Amin or Caligula or Joseph Stalin...

...you've got to respect them?

Are you suggesting that we should also "respect" their "beliefs?"

"Oh, excuse me, Mr. Hitler....but with all the respect in the world, I just think that gassing all those people and then throwing their bodies into ovens is really a bit over the top. I wonder if I could, also with as much respect as possible and without calling you any names or belittling you or your "beliefs" in any way...prevail on you to cease this activity?"

None of us, MA...except people who are insane....agree with and show respect for all other ideas, notions, and "beliefs."

All of us draw the line.

I still have those same concerns.

It is not only appropriate to draw those lines...it is essential.

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Ok, so reworking rule #1 first. (If taking them one at a time is possible, it may not be but I'll try).

Quote:

1. You can never kill another human being unless in self-defense of yourself or your family.

First, the potential problems of this law as it is written. There is entirely too much room for interpretation here. Given man's propensity for greed, lust, and other vices this law can quickly become abused. The question arises "What is self defense?" If someone is driving carelessly down a road in which children play, do you then have the right to shoot him since he was endangering your child?

And if you started taking pot-shots at him with a rifle, does his father who happens to be in the passenger seat then have the right to shoot at you? Entirely too much violence for such a pristine society I should think.

So let's try this one out:

1. Never knowingly or willfully kill another human being.

There are several potential problems inherent in that law as well, but at least it will get the ball rolling.

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Sozobe Wrote:

Quote:

Momma Angel, how about this -- can you say what your goal is? To come up with a utopia that has only three rules, and what those rules would be?

I would be more than happy to tell you what my goal is, Sozobe. I believe very strongly that people CAN and DO make great differences in this world. However, I have come across so many that either have the opinion that nothing will ever change for the better or they couldn't possibly make a change themselves. I just don't believe that's true. I believe if we can work together we can make a difference.

I had almost forgotten about this thread until Katrina. Then I saw the world coming together and making a change. Then the back and forth finger pointing, etc., happened and it reminded me of the thread. I would just like to see how far we can get with this.

I don't expect an Utopia. But, I know there are some very very intelligent and caring people in these threads. I say, if we have to rewrite the whole constitution to straighten out problems, then let's write it!

So the only goal I have is to see if we can stay focused, work together, write laws we will all be willing to abide by and see what happens. I realize not no one will be 100% satisfied and I don't expect even one person to be. I just believe we can compromise to where we can really make something here.

Questioner,

I love it. That's what I mean. We start with one and keep changing it until we are satisfied with it.

And everyone, I would kind of like to not do any of the law rewriting myself, if you don't mind. I did start this thread, but I feel if I tried to rewrite the laws or anything it may look like I am biased and I don't want that. So, if it is agreeable with everyone, I would just like to moderate and try to keep us on focus if that's ok? Of course, if I get off focus, somebody slap the Momma!

So glad you are all willing to participate.

Frank and Terry,

I agree. Law 2 is impossible to adhere to and enforce. So, if we just keep with a civil right theme, can you come up with a new Law 2?

As for Law 3 Terry, I understand your point. I just hope no one feels that way when we rewrite any of these laws. And I guess what we can do is the majority rules for now. But, if there is any other suggestion you or anyone else out there may have, let's hear it. This is us building a nation the way we want it to be built.

Momma Angel

P.S. Be back in a bit. I have to get some coffee! Laughing

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The real problem, MA, is that you missed the entire point of Satan's lie in the Edenic rebellion. He asserted that mankind would be better off creating its own rules without the perfect direction of God. This is why I have ignored your thread until now.

The only solution for mankind's dilemma lies in the government prophesied in Daniel 2:44, for which Jesus taught us to pray in Matthew 6:10.

All other governments are not only temporary, but under the control of Satan.

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And above all...for this nation to appeal to me in any way...there must be an absolute guarantee that the citizenry will have freedom FROM religion.

Unless this new government can work out a law that prohibits anyone in public office from ever mentioning or exhorting any gods during his or her performance of his/her public duties...

...it will be a nation with nothing more than pretensions of being enlightened.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

And above all...for this nation to appeal to me in any way...there must be an absolute guarantee that the citizenry will have freedom FROM religion.

Unless this new government can work out a law that prohibits anyone in public office from ever mentioning or exhorting any gods during his or her performance of his/her public duties...

...it will be a nation with nothing more than pretensions of being enlightened.

Frank,

We are all writing up the laws we want. Is this the way you want your law stated? After we get a few laws posted, we can all discuss them and tweak them until we can (hopefully) come to some compromise.

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