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Boxer in Title Fight Dies from Injuries, Time for a Ban?

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 05:57 am
Hmm, I also, Msolga.

I think for me it is because I am gradually switching from looking at the keyboard, to not doing do.

So, I muck up all the time.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 06:14 am
Hadn't noticed yours at all, but mine are everywhere! Confused
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 09:31 am
Linda Robertson's View

Quote:
We must learn from senseless boxing death

By Linda Robertson

[email protected]

Boxer Leavander Johnson planned to leave his championship bout in a limo. He left in an ambulance.

Now, six days after doctors cut out a piece of his skull to relieve the swelling of his brain, Johnson will leave Las Vegas in a coffin.

''I've puked twice tonight,'' promoter Lou DiBella said Saturday night after watching Johnson absorb 409 punches from Jesus Chavez.

The fight was not close headed into the 11th round. Johnson, defending his International Boxing Federation lightweight belt for the first time, had been pummeled in the head. He had no chance of winning. Yet he fought on.

Johnson's father and trainer, Bill, stood in his son's corner, looked into his son's eyes and discussed throwing in the towel, but decided not to. The ringside physician, Dr. Margaret Goodman, checked Johnson and found his neurological signs to be normal. She warned referee Tony Weeks not to allow him to endure much more punishment.

Then, 38 seconds into the 11th, after Johnson was struck by 20 straight blows, Weeks stopped the fight. Johnson was alert and wanted to keep going.

A blood clot was already forming. As Johnson walked to his dressing room, he began dragging his left leg. He complained of an excruciating headache. Within two minutes, he had slumped off the rubdown table. Forty minutes later, he was in surgery.

He rallied for a couple days, but in the end, his brain could not overcome the trauma of slamming from one side of the skull to the other, according to his surgeon.

Johnson was a father of four from Atlantic City, N.J. After 16 years as a pro, he was to collect his biggest purse -- $150,000.

Prior to the fight, he told a reporter: ``If this guy is going to beat me, he is going to have to kill me.''

PREVENTION IMPORTANT

Boxers don't stop their own fights. To do so would be contrary to the core of their being that drew them into boxing in the first place. They are in the ''hurt business,'' as Mike Tyson called it. They train themselves to ignore signals of surrender from their bodies.

So when DiBella says Johnson was ''victimized by his own bravery,'' he is wrong. Johnson was victimized by a sport -- and an audience -- that values the smell of blood and the threat of death over the ''sweet science'' of a safely-contested match. Consequently, fights tend to end a round too late rather than a round too early.

Boxing is on a bad run. In the past six months, four boxers have died and two have nearly died. But this is not a plea to ban our most elemental sport. It is inherently dangerous, but it needn't be eliminated any more than football, hockey or rugby should be eliminated. Skiers and jockeys die, too.

It's just that boxers die more often. They don't have to. We don't have to shrug and say, ``That's boxing.''

''Almost all ring deaths are preventable,'' said Ferdie Pacheco, the Fight Doctor for Muhammad Ali who eventually left the corner because the brain-damaged Ali wouldn't retire. ``When a guy starts to take a beating, stop the fight. Put it on a scale and tell me which is more important: a thrilling, gruesome fight or a person's life?''

FAILING TO HELP

Referees should be rewarded, not booed, for stopping fights. Pacheco suggests opening a referee school, instituting a rigorous exam and licensing a select few.

Fighters are permitted to enter the ring without sufficient recovery time and despite cumulative damage. ''Their brains are like overripe tomatoes,'' Pacheco says, recalling Benny Paret's death against Emile Griffith.

Johnson was 35 and had fought two months ago. Riddick Bowe, 37 and battered, somehow got a license in Oklahoma. Roy Jones Jr., 36, fights in St. Petersburg next week even though he was knocked cold in his past two bouts. The foolish comeback of Thomas Hearns, 46, should be blocked.

Goodman, chief of the Nevada State Athletic Commission's medical advisory board, advocates mandatory prefight CT scans paid for by the promoters. The commission has formed a panel to review the deaths and seek reforms.

''Something is wrong,'' Goodman said. ``We need to re-evaluate the entire way we approach the testing and treatment of boxers. These kids trust their lives to us, and we're failing them.''

It's time for those who oversee boxing to be as courageous as the boxers
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 09:32 am
InfraBlue wrote:
You all should have seen all of Oscar de la Hoya's women fans becoming excited and aroused watching him fight during his heyday.


They weren't excited by the violence though.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 09:36 am
Who Killed Davey Moore - Dylan


Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not I," says the referee,
"Don't point your finger at me.
I could've stopped it in the eighth
An' maybe kept him from his fate,
But the crowd would've booed, I'm sure,
At not gettin' their money's worth.
It's too bad he had to go,
But there was a pressure on me too, you know.
It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not us," says the angry crowd,
Whose screams filled the arena loud.
"It's too bad he died that night
But we just like to see a fight.
We didn't mean for him t' meet his death,
We just meant to see some sweat,
There ain't nothing wrong in that.
It wasn't us that made him fall.
No, you can't blame us at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says his manager,
Puffing on a big cigar.
"It's hard to say, it's hard to tell,
I always thought that he was well.
It's too bad for his wife an' kids he's dead,
But if he was sick, he should've said.
It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?


"Not me," says the gambling man,
With his ticket stub still in his hand.
"It wasn't me that knocked him down,
My hands never touched him none.
I didn't commit no ugly sin,
Anyway, I put money on him to win.
It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says the boxing writer,
Pounding print on his old typewriter,
Sayin', "Boxing ain't to blame,
There's just as much danger in a football game."
Sayin', "Fist fighting is here to stay,
It's just the old American way.
It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says the man whose fists
Laid him low in a cloud of mist,
Who came here from Cuba's door
Where boxing ain't allowed no more.
"I hit him, yes, it's true,
But that's what I am paid to do.
Don't say 'murder,' don't say 'kill.'
It was destiny, it was God's will."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?



Copyright © 1964; renewed 1992 Special Rider Music
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 09:41 am
dlowan wrote:
Methinks you have not watched the audiences in boxing, then.


That has been the only thing I HAVE watched, on the rare occasions that I have been forced to sit there while the boxing is on TV.



But, are you actually saying that you do not believe that some women are sexually turned on by violence? That it is only a testosterone thing?


Watching it on TV? I have BEEN to hundreds of live sporting events, boxing, football, baseball, basketball, etc. Women, by and large, do not get aroused by violence. Normal women get turned off by violence. I haven't been to a live boxing match in awhile and haven't watched on TV, I will though just to try to figure out what you are talking about.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 10:27 am
normal women get turned off by violence? says who? i'd presume that, as in any situation where you have a group of people, some are turned on, some are turned off, some don't care. i don't think the 'gentler' half of humankind would stay far behind men in seeking thrills in violence, visually or physically. somewhat maybe (there again we can discuss how much of it is cultural and how much is in the genes so to speak), but not much.
i have been to hundreds of stores, but i'm not gonna claim women love to buy pickled herring just because i do when i go...
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 12:24 pm
msolga--

Quote:
I get quite embraced when I read my posts


Good. That's because we love you.
0 Replies
 
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2005 01:30 pm
Dag, next time I see you, let's throw down.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 05:49 am
Noddy24 wrote:
msolga--

Quote:
I get quite embraced when I read my posts


Good. That's because we love you.


Laughing

Nice, Noddy! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 07:50 am
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
Dag, next time I see you, let's throw down.


ok, slappy. let's. it will be a nice change from throwing up. frankly, i was growing a little tired of that. i'm all for healthy living.
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 08:33 am
dagmaraka wrote:
normal women get turned off by violence? says who? i'd presume that, as in any situation where you have a group of people, some are turned on, some are turned off, some don't care. ..


Then how come ninetyfive percent of the attendees at boxing matches are men and most of the women there are there because a guy brought them. I do not even buy the original statement that people as a whole get sexually aroused watching violence. Of course, I am sure there some men who do and even far fewer women.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 09:25 am
there are studies about such topics (perceptions, turn ons, turn offs.) perceptions, like culture,norms, institutions, are not static and evolve. there are increasingly more women at the matches and in them, and i highly doubt that they all go because a guy brought them. none of my friends that i boxed with ever went or even started because a guy brought them. i believe the trend will continue.

Excerpts from one perspective that takes a try at explaining history behind the boom of women boxing (via a profile of one boxer):
"The current boom in women's boxing, which began almost a decade ago, may be just the latest episode in this long history, but it also has occasioned major changes in the fight world. The increasingly institutionalized character of women's boxing is a new development: title-granting organizations (multiple, competing, and variably shady, just like those in men's boxing) award belts and rank contenders, state commissions regulate women and men alike, and a formal amateur network undergirds the profession. For the first time since the rise of boxing to state-regulated legitimacy a century ago, it is now common practice to include a women's bout among men's bouts, or to stage all-women's cards. To the extent that any boxing is legitimate, women's boxing has become increasingly legitimate, and sometimes it can even be the main event."

<snip>

"Among the several social and cultural frames one might place around this phenomenon--and its high visibility in a recent round of movies, books, news features, and advertisements--is the larger movement of women into traditional proving grounds of American manhood. The generation of women currently integrating boxing, contact sports, hunting, and the military combat arms (not to mention action movies) has grown up in a time of remarkable fluidity in the sexual division of work and play. In particular, the assumption of a male monopoly on skilled, socially valued aggression has been seriously undermined, and not only by the feminist impulse. The Title IX legislation of 1972 that enabled the late 20th-century boom in women's sports was a symptom as much as a cause of the movement of women into previously off-limits areas. Beneath and behind the transformation of play lies the transformation of work: the final collapse of the family wage system that theoretically allowed a working man's salary to support his wife and children, together with the complementary movement of men into service jobs that resemble what used to be called "women's work." Deindustrialization, the mechanization of farming, and the expansion of service work, especially, have helped to undermine the traditional calculus of masculinity based on body work and associated rough play, on being good with one's hands.

A variety of enterprising women have undertaken to explore the evocative ruins of that partially collapsed tradition and to salvage usable parts for their own purposes. Women pushing for access to the fight world have been part of a larger push in the realms of work and play (which overlap at the fights) to claim once "manly" virtues that boxing is known to nurture and embody: autonomy, physical competence, and discipline, all wrapped up with productive aggression.

Women who want to fight, driven by an appetite for hitting as incompletely explicable as that which urges men into the ring, come to boxing from a variety of directions. A few come from fighting families; they grow up trading punches with brothers, or learn the ropes from fathers. More women, for the most part educated and middle-class, are recruited through the boxing-themed aerobic exercise regimes currently popular in health clubs. They grow tired of punching air to the beat and begin to wonder what it feels like to hit somebody who hits back. Others, the multi-sport athletes, come to boxing after playing organized sports in high school or college. Most of those sports offer little in the way of a professional future, and boxing is so individualistic that an extraordinarily motivated woman can take it up in earnest while still earning a living at day jobs or even pursuing a full-fledged career.

The majority of female boxers come to boxing through martial arts, which tend to emphasize technique over brute strength and which have been relatively integrated in the United States since the late 1960s and 1970s, when feminism and a spike in crime statistics inspired widespread interest in women's self-defense"

whole article: http://www.bc.edu/publications/bcm/winter_2002/ft_boxing.html ("Get Busy, Girlfrien")
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 01:06 pm
Quote:
there are studies about such topics (perceptions, turn ons, turn offs.) perceptions, like culture,norms, institutions, are not static and evolve. there are increasingly more women at the matches and in them, and i highly doubt that they all go because a guy brought them. none of my friends that i boxed with ever went or even started because a guy brought them. i believe the trend will continue.


I believe it will decline. I believe that the popularity of boxing will continue to decline. I watched the crowd at Caeser's Palace and was not able to see two women in the crowd seated together. There were very few women. In fact, it seems to me there used to be more women. Females boxing is a curiousity that will fade.

I still want to see Million Dollar Baby though.
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 01:23 pm
Quote:

Battered Women
Female boxing is brutal and hopeless.

By Benjamin Wallace-Wells

When I was just out of college I worked as a newspaper reporter in Philadelphia, and we used to go to Friday night boxing fights at a club called the Blue Horizon, on an iffy block of North Broad Street at precisely the point where Center City peters out into a vast ghetto. Like the rest of Philly, the Blue Horizon knows very well what it is selling, a twisted nostalgia for a time when things were tougher. The concession stand?-a fold-up table in the entrance hall?-sells only $3 cans of Bud and Bud Light. Past the stand, the space opens up into a big, brightly-lit room with a couple of dozen rows of wooden chairs, like those in an elementary school classroom, surrounding a boxing ring four feet above the floor, a theater in the round. These are the cheap seats, 15 bucks, half of them filled with blacks from North Philly, the other half with slumming yuppies like me. Only two in 10 are women, but their catcalls are as rough and fierce as any.

For 50 bucks, you can buy yourself an armchair seat on a balcony ringing the room, from which you can peer down over the room. These, however, are always filled with older Italian men, the Unindicted Co-conspirator set, fat and inert in their little chairs, each one looking like a marshmallow stuffed into a shot glass. They spend the evening pretty much unmoved by the drama of the moment, passing assured little nods back and forth: They knew who would win all along. The lights are bright, and the crowd is less drunk and less loud than you'd expect. But they are experts.

They know, for instance, that it is no fun to watch heavyweights or lightweights fight because a heavyweight is too big for any but a world-class opponent to knock out, and all but the best of lightweights (135 pounds) don't have enough bulk to hit hard enough to make the fight interesting. So, all the fighters are middleweights and welterweights; the first matches of the night are between the youngest and greenest, and they slowly build to the headliners. The first two bouts are brief snoozers, three-rounders between fighters just good enough to play defense but not good enough to really hit. The crowd focuses on the way the boxers shift weight, issuing idle calls of "yes, sir!" when a fighter works himself a brief opening with his feet, exhaling slowly when his fists move too slowly to take advantage of it. By the third fight, a six-rounder, the boxers can really hit; as they tire, their defenses loosen, and their heads start to snap back against the fat compress of the other guy's fists. The mafia goons on the balcony are applauding now, and their cigars are out; the antiquated on the floor are calling out advice?-left, move, left, move. When the ring card girls?-third-string, fourth-decade strippers from a South Philly gentlemen's club?-come out between rounds, they are greeted for the first time now with more than an auditorium full of lazy disinterest. You realize that everyone in the room, from the old Philly goons to the homeboys and the yuppies, is invested, against all probability, in the idea that something historic might happen here tonight, that a new welterweight might emerge, that the epic is still possible in Philly. And then, for the first of two last fights before the headliner, they bring out the girls.

The girls were ugly and thick, but the crowd didn't care, whistling and hooting for them?-"Sweet Ass Angie!" junk like that. It seemed almost endearing at first. A scrawny little black girl, a north Philly local named Angie Nelsen, danced around the ring, throwing up her gloves and revving up the crowd. In the red corner, called the ring announcer, was Jessica Flaherty, a corn-rowed white girl from Amish country who couldn't muster the same kind of flamboyance; she just looked scared. Clapping, the crowd leaned forward?-here was something new. The girls shrugged off their robes?-now looking young and nervous?-and charged each other at the bell, wind-milling with both arms.

The worst male fighters know how to play defense, but these girls looked like they'd never been trained. They didn't even try to protect themselves. There was no effort to dodge, no shifting of weight, no clever, calculated movement of feet. Both girls just kept charging, swinging both fists at the same time. It was like watching six-year-olds fight before they're old enough to realize that they might be hurt: All you want to do is make it stop. The action in the middle of the ring was an inchoate tangle of limbs and fists. Thirty seconds into the whirling, Angie fell down, striking the mat violently, as if she was attacking it. Jessica waved her arms above her head chaotically?-a caricatured Rocky gesture?-a huge grin on her face. I thought to myself that these two must be the worst girl fighters in the world. But it turned out that six months earlier, Jessica had placed second in her weight class at the National Golden Gloves?-this was as good as it got.

They never should have let Angie back in the fight, but they did. She wobbled out to the center of the ring, too hurt to lift her hands above her waist. Jessica whacked her right in the nose; Angie went down, a series of limbs hitting the canvas in a successive heap. The nervous white girl from Lancaster started dancing around, and it was "Sweet Ass Jessie" this time, her reward whistles and hooting. Angie was out for 15 minutes, white-cloaked medical personnel bending ominously over her. They revived her, and the same crowd that had cheered the sophistication of the earlier male boxers gave a perfunctory clap for Angie's health, and then immediately started chanting for the evening's male headliner, a fighter with the nickname "Black Gold."

Hard knocks

Boxing has long existed in a cultural ghetto, revelling in its corruption and violence. Women's boxing operates in a further ghetto still. No one other than the fighters really takes it seriously?-not the audience, not the referees, not the trainers. I've been to more than a dozen women's fights since that first one, and nearly all were just like it, 45-second bloodfests. It's hard to figure what appeals to the girls who fight: You get thrown in the ring with some cretin who is trying to rip your head off, you have no idea how to defend yourself, and all the while a thousand sweaty men are shouting at you, trying to be clever about your rear end. No matter how long you fight or how good you become, you'll never be the headliner, some man will. Nobody cares enough to teach you the craft. The fights are brutal, sexualized, and uncontrollable. What's more, there is not much money in the sport?-probably the only female boxers you've ever heard of are the daughters of Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier?-because no significant television audience would ever pay to see this crap. And yet the girls keep signing up, keep coming.

A movie (and, it now seems, Oscar favorite) out from Paramount since Christmas, called Million Dollar Baby, traces the pathologies of this sport with a mostly deft touch and only the occasional off-putting bout of fantasy. The storyline is simple: A poor girl from the Ozarks with the ethnically-precise name of Maggie Fitzgerald, moves to Los Angeles. She is 31 and has been a diner waitress since 13, picking half-finished steaks off her customers' plates for her own dinner. She believes she will be a champion women's boxer?-why she wants to fight is never fully explained, though Maggie, who is played by Hilary Swank, seems to think it's the only thing she has ever been good at. Maggie seizes upon a respected, older blue-collar trainer named Frankie Dunn and begs him to make her a champion. He balks. (Because Clint Eastwood plays Dunn, there is also a lot of soulful squinting.) She demonstrates her will, perseverance, brains, and determination. After a lot of gruff I-don't-train-girls talk, Dunn takes her on and Maggie proves to be an outstanding student. Dunn teaches her the pure mechanics of the sport in a long training sequence that is the best explanatory document of boxing I've ever seen or read, Malcolm Gladwell assigned to the ring. To pivot to the left, you press down on your right big toe. Boxing is counter-intuitive, about opposites.

To the surprise of no one except the movie's characters, Maggie makes it. Dunn teaches her how to bait younger, stronger girls; he gets her championship fights, and she starts to win. This was the moment when I became nervous?-it seemed like the story was drifting into fantasy. The crowds Maggie fought in front of were supportive, paternal, interested in the tactics of her fight and not in the rough pornography of watching two women pound one another. She fought in clean, well-lit places. She fought expertly, against expert opponents, and for this mastery of craft she made millions of dollars. This was Rocky, with a second X chromosome. This was the full narrative thrust that the critics had described, and so I went in expecting to be disappointed by a fraud of a movie.

But there's an awkward convention that persists among movie critics. They never mention the end of any film, the moment when the director's judgment on all the film's events and themes is finally consummated. It's in some ways a ridiculous stand, like assessing Lincoln's conduct of the Civil War without considering anything that happened after Antietam. And in the case of Million Dollar Baby, it's particularly absurd because the fantasy that has built up dissolves in a ring scene of sickening brutality, and the movie's last 30 minutes (though they feel like a dramatic fraud) end up showing the guilt and tumult that develops in those who back a fighter who has been left near death, and a girl fighter at that. In this, the film doesn't cheat.

Boxed in

Women's boxing inherits its audience, and therefore its pathologies, from the men's side of the sport. Boxing was always pornography of some kind; it's no accident that the two great novels of black male experience, Invisible Man and Black Boy, both have extended boxing scenes in which muscular, scared black kids fight for the pleasure of fat, white crowds. But things have gotten worse since Ellison and Wright's time. Men's boxing has spent the last half century in decline; what was once one of the country's most popular sports has descended into a subculture that is now wholly dangerous and corrupt; few middle-class people, outside of slummers like me, ever go to fights anymore. Boxing itself is responsible for part of this, with its corrupt regulatory bodies and its decision to relegate the sport to pay-per-view. And it doesn't help that American tastes have dandified; this is a middle-class country now, and boxing simply isn't a middle-class sport. And so for the older gentlemen in the Blue Horizon's balcony, the very presence of women fighting in front of them marks a comedown in the world; what their fathers watched as art is now inescapably exploitation, a catfight.

Women's boxing seems to be barely not worth worrying about, another freak show, except that for all the indignities and the lack of reward, the fighters keep coming. There's no shortage of working class girls out there who, when all else fails, rely on their physical selves and swing away, hoping to steal a little celebrity on the side. The fighters themselves seem unable to explain their motivations; when pressed by interviewers, they say only that they should be able to box if boys do. Million Dollar Baby can feel similarly unsatisfying. It takes Maggie's assertion that boxing is the only thing she could ever be famous at, accepts?-as movie people tend to?-that every human being has an inner yearning to become a celebrity and leaves it there.

Or maybe it doesn't, quite. Maggie's career, after all, traces the arc of the sport: What began as a few day-dreamy women in gyms, believing they could punch back as hard and as fast as some of the guys, has devolved into something very ugly, very violent. It documents the cheat run on working-class girls who think they might find liberation in the ring, like Rocky did, like all the guys can.


Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 01:28 pm
Hmm. The Washington Monthly seems to be the RIGHT magazine for a judgement here ... especially re females.
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 01:54 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Hmm. The Washington Monthly seems to be the RIGHT magazine for a judgement here ... especially re females.


Are you thinking of the Washington Times? Washington Monthly is very left.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Sep, 2005 01:57 pm
Might be I got confused. Sorry.
0 Replies
 
el pohl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Sep, 2005 05:32 pm
Banning boxing would be banning the dreams of hundreds and hundreds people in the world. At least here in Mexico, certain individuals in the low class societies view boxing as THE activity to gain something in life. You could say the same with "futbol" in Argentina or Brazil, but the truth is that the majority of boxers in my country come from very very modest families.

They know what they are getting into, and accept any consequence. The rest of us can only sit, watch, cheer, suffer, and enjoy... cause we are part of the business!
0 Replies
 
 

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