Do The Lies Never End?

no kidding!

then again, the view that most iraqis have of the US is prolly vastly different that the view we have from the inside.

Yes, they probably have no idea the extent to which poverty exists here, the lack of universal health care, and the infant mortality rate, which should make every American blush. Let's hope they don't find out anytime soon...

maybe it'd help make america look less arrogant.....? No... less affluent for sure.

The bigger problem., the bigger outrage is that "they" are lying now, have always lied throughout history, and although we can read history and learn about the lies themselves, we choose not to learn anything about the results of the lies pertaining to how to conduct ourselves.

A few thousand people control the fate of a few billion. So it has always been. We have been doomed ever since we became sentinent.

Yup!

What the Iraqi's will probably get is something similar to what the University of Chicago crowd gave Chili. I suspect they will be disappointed.

Did any of you ever consider that the Iraqi's will be much better off than they were under the Saddam regime?
The oil profits will go to help the people not to build bigger and better palaces and torture chambers.

i think at this point in time, thats an unknown.

I'm with Dys on this.

Geroge may soon discover why wise people often councel: "Be careful what you hope for."

dyslexia
At this point in time everything is an unknown. But everyone is jumping on the wagon of negativity. Is it because the only way to prove their point is to have everything go up in smoke. I will take the positive view and hope that things go as planned.

I don't make the assumption that our culture is better than the Iraqi culture and they will wind up being grateful. They may instead wind up feeling dislocated. Saddam the tyrant may, as time goes by, be remembered differently -- as part of a time "before the invasion when we still were our real selves." In Spain where I lived during the Franco era, any Spaniard might have wanted access to the kind of prosperity and freedom America had (yes, I mean had, not has), but not one that I ever know would have wanted American to barge in and set it up. By invading and changing Iraq in order to remove Saddam, we are throwing the baby out with the bath water -- or better, we're throwing out the fabric rather than removing one spot.

If Iraq weren't happening right now, we'd be more focused on our own problems -- the economy, the deficit, our inefficiencies, problems with the infrastructure, doubts about voting procedures, curbing corporations, avoiding Enrons, improving education and access to it, improving our healthcare system and access to it -- and on and on. We are (when we think about it) pretty imperfect, doubtful about the processes which keep us democratic and which guarantee our liberties. We tend to think we're exporting a shiny new, perfectly functioning machine to Iraq and we're proud of ourselves and think they should be grateful. But if we stop and take a deep breath, we will have to admit that we're exporting the American way of doing things and we're experiencing an awful lot of glitches these days in the American way of doing things.

Tartarian I think you have stated the issue about as clearly as it could be stated.

Tartarin

Neither do I but they may find out in the long run that freedom is better than tyranny.
As for the problems at home they will always exist in any free society and even more so with the present power structure in the nation. But you know what? We have the freedom to vote it out and to fix what is broken. If we do not we have only ourselves to blame. I should also note that the vote may indicate the majority likes things just as they are today.

If freedom is better, then why am I not allowed to keep my money instead of giving it to a joke of a social security system?

If I piss my money away I'm willing to eat dog food later, but I'm not allowed that freedom.

Why?

Of course at the current rate, we'll be eating dog food AND out the money.

Once again I stress the law of unintended consquences.

And I remind everyone there are times one ought to be careful what one wishes for.

NOTE: Among the Muslim states, the only democratically elected governement over there is Turkey.

The non-democracies backed us with no difficulty. The democratically elected government of Turkey didn't.

frank
None of the Muslim states backed us. The only difference is that the Turkish parliament made the decision while in the surrounding countries the leaders did.
If one could indeed call that backing.

Conservatives lie so much they prolly don't know the difference any more.

Frank, you make a nice point there. And look how mad we got at the Turks while we're still fornicating with the Saudis.