Can one be Gay and Christian?

Daniellejean - many Christian Churches not only welcome gay members, but even have gay ministers! I have attended such churches - one Pilgrim Congregational Church in Lexington, MA. I would check out different churches in your area and see which ones have a more liberal philosophy.

Also check out this website: religioustolerance.com. They have lots of insights into various interpretations and thoughts about the Bible and Christian beliefs.

It also says that lying is sin. If a person lies, are they no longer a Christian?

I

Nonsense. The entire point of temptation is the presentation of a desireable thing, being, or condition. Were the presented thing, being or condition not desireable, there would be no temptation. To succumb to temptation is to sin. To reject temptation and thereby avoid sin is the entire point of conceiving the absurd notion of sin in the first place.

As I have point out to Life in other threads, the Bible does a heck of a lot more than that.

Here, in fact, is the major biblical comment on homosexual behavior...the passage upon which almost all other passages on this issue are based. It is from Leviticus...Chapter 20, verse 13:


"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives."

In any case, daniellejean...

...you asked: Can one be Gay and Christian?

MY RESPONSE:

Of course.

One could also be a religious Jew and a Nazi or an African American and a Ku Klux Klansman.

The question really shouldn't be "...can they be..."...

...but rather "...why in heck would they wanna be?"

thats my point I guess, that the gay community that I am associated with would marginalize me for being Christian, but the Christian community would marginalize me for being bisexual. So where does a person of faith and sexual diversity turn to for acceptance? It seems the world is telling us to choose either our God or our inclinations for love. And should we fall in love with someone from the same gender, then we must accept that we can no longer have God. That is absurd to me.

There is something absurd there...but it is not what you think.

Let me attempt to explain. Bear with me...it may get confusing.

I am an agnostic. I do not know if there is a God...I do not know if there are no gods...and I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction.

It occurs right now that many (MANY) people have made a guess that there is a God...despite the paucity of evidence. And many of those people make the further guess that the God is described in the Bible.

I, Daniellejean, think that the god descibed in the Bible is a cartoon...a malevolent, murderous, vindictive, vengeful, petty, tryrannical, barbaric god...that does not deserve capitalization in its references...and most assuredly does not deserve love, affection, adoration or worship.

All of this breaks down to this:

Be gay...be straight...be bi.

And have a God.

Just be more selective.

And if you also want to be a Christian...be a Christian. Think that the teachings of Jesus were worthwhile...admirable...and instructive.

I do.

I am in effect an agnostic...and a Christian (of sorts). I certainly do not think Jesus was God...(as I said, I do not even know if there is such a being)...and as you can tell, I enthusiastially reject the god Jesus worshipped...

...but I see no real contradictions.

If you want to guess a God exists...and if you want to worship that God...

...do so. The best possible guess is that no God worthy of capitalization, adoration, or worship is going to give a damn about what or who sexually attracts you...or whether or not you act on that attraction.

Pick your God more carefully.

Have both your God...and your sexual identity.

They are not contradictory.

If you are interested daniellejean about being a part of a Christian Church that supports homosexuals here is a list of Churches in Maine that are part of the same organization the church I attended in Lexington.



http://www.ucc.org/find/city_ucc.php

After doing some research, I must concur that the Bible is pretty clear on the fact that homosexuality is a sin (quotes are from King James Version unless otherwise stated):

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." ~ 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 (New International Version)

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." ~ Leviticus 18:22

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." ~ Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version)

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and reciving in themselves that recompence of their error [...] Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." ~ Romans 1:24-27, 32


The point real life was making was that the Bible defines homosexuality as a sin, not that homosexual offenders are not Christians. To answer your question: You are a Christian if you ask for forgiveness for your sins (and no, grace does not give you the right to sin further).
Everyone is a sinner ("For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," ~ Romans 3:23 (NIV)), and becoming a Christian is a long, hard road. But in a way, you are correct: Those who sin are not Christians. Those who ask for forgiveness, then do not sin after the forgiveness are Christians.

Thank you for your insight all, especially with regard to the local churches. I think they are called Metropolitan Community Church, and I researched it in more depth when I was younger. I have just had a hard time leaving my Catholic roots because there are certain things about Catholocism that attract me, namely that we feel priveledged to take the body and blood of christ every week, and also our revernece for the Holy Mother. But maybe a more supportive environment would be better. It's something I have to think about I guess.

surprised to find you came out as christian

yeah, well we all have to face the facts sometime

Hiya KC,

You'll notice I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. I am a Christian. But unfortunately I also sin.

I do not want to sin, because sin offends God. How can you say you love someone and then don't care if you offend them?

Many sins that I frequently committed before I was a Christian I no longer do, and haven't done in years.

Other sins are very difficult for me to overcome. For instance I tend to lose my temper at times. Not violently or even abusively. But it is something that I struggle with.

Also I don't always use the best judgement in my words. I have a sarcastic streak in me. (if you've read my posts much, you've probably noticed) . But sometimes I am sarcastic to the point of unkindness. That is a sin.

Now if I were to rationalize........

'God doesn't care if I'm unkind, does He? Why should He as long as I'm not _____________ (fill in the blank with justifying behavior)'

Or

'God doesn't mind if I have a bad temper, does He? As long as I'm not ______________(insert justifier) then I can still be a good Christian, can't I ?'

............then my rationalization will lead me away from God and into further sin and self deceptive rationalization.

Trying to bargain with God and balance bad behavior with good behavior is a delusion.

What if you were correcting your child for some behavior and they tried to argue that some other thing they did right should get them off the hook for the thing they did wrong? Would you buy it?

Or what if you were in court for theft and you pointed out to the judge how that on many other occasions you had NOT stolen. Do you think he'd dismiss your case?

Well, if you as a human parent are smart enough to see through it, and a human judge is smart enough to see through it -- do you think anyone is gonna be able to buffalo God?

This is a bit tangential, but talking about conflicted souls, Trembling Before G-d is a movie about a Jew who wants to be Orthodox! It's like a gay Christian wanting to be a Fundamentalist.

Luckily, Christianity, like Judaism, comes in all sorts of flavors. Just choose the one you're most comfortable with.

can one be gay and Muslim?

Well since you Christians keep insisting that we are all "sinners"...it appears as though your god is offended by almost everything humans do...except, of course, grovelling before the god.

Perhaps "sin" is not the problem.

Perhaps the god is the problem.

In any case, your comment above really makes no sense. A "sin" supposedly is a thought or deed that offends your god....so what you are saying in that comment is: I do not want to offend god because it offends god.





Easily!

I love you, Life...but I sure as heck do not care if I offend you, because although I love you, I recognize that you get offended by stuff that ought really not to offend you.

that sounds very much like God talking, not you Frank.

The problem as I see it is that whilst we all have an emotional need for Something which gives meaning and purpose to our pathetic little lives, everyone's something is as valid as anyone else's. And that's how it should be imo.

But organised religions have grown up to exploit this gap in man's psyche, offering a bespoke product... which ends up benefitting a Priesthood who in reality know nothing more about the Unknowable than anyone else.

Secret Agent - you are quoting as you said from the King James Version. The Bible was not originally written in English that is why there is a translation. If you read some other thoughts about this translation, you may find that homosexuality is not thought of as the King James Version translates.

If you go to religioustolerance.com and do a search for the passage you want various translations for - the website will give all different thoughts of each passage and what the thought process is for each translation. I really like it as they give various viewpoints - not just one.

Funny daniellejean - I also came from a Catholic upbringing, however, the first time I attended a Protestant Church, I was shocked - pleasantly shocked in my case. To me, it is important to find a church you are comfortable with and feel at home and accepted.

Religion originated as a surrogate for politics - before humankind was sophisticated enough to begin to separate the 2 (a process which took several millenia). As politics became increasingly more a distinct entity, organized religion congruently morphed into typical self-promoting, self-perpetuating, bureaucrat-laden, hierarchical, hide-bound, linearly-configured, conservative - even reactionary - cut-throat business.

Can one be any kind of real christian, and still be bigoted against gays?