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Why do people vote against their own self-interest?

 
 
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 10:51 am
Opinion: If We're Not Dumb, How Can We Appear So Stupid?
By Dom Stasi
Bush Watch

What caused so many Americans (59,054,087 if one believes the vote count) to reward this profoundly failed president and his designing men with a second term?

What motivated so many of our countrymen, after observing this guy, this mutant prince, this chronic incompetent whose proximate tenure proved him neither intelligent nor rational nor honest nor temperate, what caused us to unbridle such a dismal failure by providing him a docile, if equally corrupt legislative majority of more designing men to do his bidding and pillaging in our name?

What blinded nearly 60 million Americans to the folly of casting their collective lot with big-money-globalists and against their own? against their nation's economy? against their families? against their freedoms? against their futures? against their civil liberties? against their - and our - blood-won civil Constitution?...Unlike so many of us, Europeans are asking such legitimate questions, so is their press.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 741 • Replies: 19
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 11:01 am
What motivated us? Perhaps the lack of vision, direction or hope from the Democrats. If Kerry had been even remotely saleable you would have had a shot at an election win. Instead, someone was trotted out who actually made Al Gore look good. At least Gore didn't do the Angry Man routine. Look like a stick figure and politically it's bad, wear a perpetual scowl and it is worse than signing your own death warrant.

I have found Bush The Second to be a decent President. Not the absolute best but more than adequate at his job and I have always felt he cares about the people unlike his predecessor.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 11:11 am
Re: Why do people vote against their own self-interest?
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Opinion: If We're Not Dumb, How Can We Appear So Stupid?
By Dom Stasi
Bush Watch

What caused so many Americans (59,054,087 if one believes the vote count) to reward this profoundly failed president and his designing men with a second term?

What motivated so many of our countrymen, after observing this guy, this mutant prince, this chronic incompetent whose proximate tenure proved him neither intelligent nor rational nor honest nor temperate, what caused us to unbridle such a dismal failure by providing him a docile, if equally corrupt legislative majority of more designing men to do his bidding and pillaging in our name?

What blinded nearly 60 million Americans to the folly of casting their collective lot with big-money-globalists and against their own? against their nation's economy? against their families? against their freedoms? against their futures? against their civil liberties? against their - and our - blood-won civil Constitution?...Unlike so many of us, Europeans are asking such legitimate questions, so is their press.


Beats the hell out of me.

I did not vote for Bush the first time out...and I did not vote for him for re-election.

I consider having him as president to be an insult to our country.
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 11:19 am
Re: Why do people vote against their own self-interest?
Frank Apisa wrote:


I consider having him as president to be an insult to our country.



Now you know how millions of us felt about Clinton.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 12:12 pm
Re: Why do people vote against their own self-interest?
Sturgis wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:


I consider having him as president to be an insult to our country.



Now you know how millions of us felt about Clinton.


I understood way back how millions of you felt about Bill Clinton. I most assuredly did not need to have this pathetic, moronic, incompetent elected and re-elected to understand that!
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 12:24 pm
Re: Why do people vote against their own self-interest?
Frank Apisa wrote:
I understood way back how millions of you felt about Bill Clinton. I most assuredly did not need to have this pathetic, moronic, incompetent elected and re-elected to understand that!


Who are you talking about? I cannot for the life of me figure out who you are referring to as pathetic, moronic and incompetent. Hillary wasn't even in the election.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 12:45 pm
Re: Why do people vote against their own self-interest?
Sturgis wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
I understood way back how millions of you felt about Bill Clinton. I most assuredly did not need to have this pathetic, moronic, incompetent elected and re-elected to understand that!


Who are you talking about? I cannot for the life of me figure out who you are referring to as pathetic, moronic and incompetent. Hillary wasn't even in the election.


There are lots of things you cannot figure out, Sturgis.

In fact, if there is anyone in this forum who should be thinking about the implications of the question posed in this thread...you are it!

You are a homosexual who "worships" a god who considers your conduct to be an abomination...and decrees death as a penalty for doing what you do.

And you are an advocate for American conservatism, a discipline populated by people who would not lift a finger in defense of your chosen life style...and who probably wish that the aforementioned decree of your god would become part of the laws of our land.

But...what can one expect for someone who thinks George Bush is not a pathetic, moronic, incompetent....but that Hillary Clinton is?

BBB...the answer to your question is here...right in front of you in the person of Sturgis. All you've gotta do is figure out why such self-hatred exists.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 02:22 pm
Re: Why do people vote against their own self-interest?
Frank Apisa wrote:

There are lots of things you cannot figure out, Sturgis.

In fact, if there is anyone in this forum who should be thinking about the implications of the question posed in this thread...you are it!

You are a homosexual who "worships" a god who considers your conduct to be an abomination...and decrees death as a penalty for doing what you do.

And you are an advocate for American conservatism, a discipline populated by people who would not lift a finger in defense of your chosen life style...and who probably wish that the aforementioned decree of your god would become part of the laws of our land.
But...what can one expect for someone who thinks George Bush is not a pathetic, moronic, incompetent....but that Hillary Clinton is?

BBB...the answer to your question is here...right in front of you in the person of Sturgis. All you've gotta do is figure out why such self-hatred exists.


You know FrankApisa, self-hatred is a rather strong allegation. Take a closer look at me, I do not hate myself. I have my beliefs and they are mine, you have yours and they are yours. Where in this do you find an appearance of self-hatred? For the record I have a number of Conservative friends who know of my sexuality and who attend the church of their choice on a regular basis and they do not shun me as you would like to believe. These good people have had me and at times various gentlemen friends over for dinner, on weekend outings and even let me watch their children for a few hours while they are enjoying a night on the town. I have been known to sleep in the same room as heterosexual conservative males Shocked Shocked and oddly I found in the morning I had not been beaten or harmed. Equally I have known some so called liberal minded folk who think my being a homosexual is just fine and dandy provided I don't spend any time alone in the same room as their male family members...even the adult ones. Liberal men that I know who wait until I have departed a public restroom before they will go in. Oh yeah I can see where those Liberals are my salvation Rolling Eyes. I have made clear in the past that the God who I believe in is not taking my sexuality and declaring it a sin. If you have trouble with that then that is your issue, not mine.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 03:08 pm
Sturgis
Stugis, all well and good that some of your best friends are.....

But would they support your marrying your lover and having all of the rights of a married couple?

BBB
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 03:12 pm
Sturgis wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:

There are lots of things you cannot figure out, Sturgis.

In fact, if there is anyone in this forum who should be thinking about the implications of the question posed in this thread...you are it!

You are a homosexual who "worships" a god who considers your conduct to be an abomination...and decrees death as a penalty for doing what you do.

And you are an advocate for American conservatism, a discipline populated by people who would not lift a finger in defense of your chosen life style...and who probably wish that the aforementioned decree of your god would become part of the laws of our land.
But...what can one expect for someone who thinks George Bush is not a pathetic, moronic, incompetent....but that Hillary Clinton is?

BBB...the answer to your question is here...right in front of you in the person of Sturgis. All you've gotta do is figure out why such self-hatred exists.


You know FrankApisa, self-hatred is a rather strong allegation. Take a closer look at me, I do not hate myself. I have my beliefs and they are mine, you have yours and they are yours. Where in this do you find an appearance of self-hatred? For the record I have a number of Conservative friends who know of my sexuality and who attend the church of their choice on a regular basis and they do not shun me as you would like to believe. These good people have had me and at times various gentlemen friends over for dinner, on weekend outings and even let me watch their children for a few hours while they are enjoying a night on the town. I have been known to sleep in the same room as heterosexual conservative males Shocked Shocked and oddly I found in the morning I had not been beaten or harmed. Equally I have known some so called liberal minded folk who think my being a homosexual is just fine and dandy provided I don't spend any time alone in the same room as their male family members...even the adult ones. Liberal men that I know who wait until I have departed a public restroom before they will go in. Oh yeah I can see where those Liberals are my salvation Rolling Eyes. I have made clear in the past that the God who I believe in is not taking my sexuality and declaring it a sin. If you have trouble with that then that is your issue, not mine.


Rationalization is a dangerous thing, Sturgis.

In any case, I am sure there are American conservatives who are understanding and reasonable with regard to homosexuality. That does not make the vast preponderance of American conservatives understanding and reasonable in that area.

I am sure you are able to find fellow theists who are understanding and reasonable about homosexual conduct..but insofar as you claim your god is the god of the Bible...you are dead wrong that your god does not declare your homosexuality a sin.

But...delude yourself if you choose. I have no problem with that.

The question here present, however, is "Why do people vote against their self interests?"...and I am using you and your take on things as part of my response to BBB. (RexRed has an almost identical situation...and an identical take, by the way.)

My personal opinion is that much of this kind of behavior is the result of self-hatred. Certainly I am not saying this is absolute and always the case...and if I am wrong in your situation...so be it.

But the fact that you are an American conservative in the face of the kinds of responses to homosexuality coming out of the vast preponderance of American conservatism...is bizarre. To worship a god who condemns your behavior....is even more bizarre. To deny the reality of all this simply goes beyond bizarre...to whatever comes next on that continuum.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 03:14 pm
Sturgis wrote:
What motivated us? Perhaps the lack of vision, direction or hope from the Democrats. If Kerry had been even remotely saleable you would have had a shot at an election win. Instead, someone was trotted out who actually made Al Gore look good.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Didn't really like Bush, but was competely turned off by Kerry. And I voted for Gore.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 03:21 pm
Re: Sturgis
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Stugis, all well and good that some of your best friends are.....

But would they support your marrying your lover and having all of the rights of a married couple?

BBB


The answer is most probably YES. I can say this because in one case, a friend, who shall remain nameless for his own sake and that of his wife and their children and their dogs Trapper, Greta and Morty as well as their cat. Now this couple have a wonderful son. He announced to them when he was 19 that he had realized he is a homosexual. They reacted. His father sat in stunned silence and then gave him a hug and told him to just live safe. His mom was a harder sell, she did not ban him from the house or her life; however she spoke to him only in clipped sentences for over a year. Finally she realized this was the same person she had loved all along and she got past her difficulty.
Currently their son is involved with another man and both his parents are active in seeking changes in legislation which will make marriage legal for same sex couples.
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 03:23 pm
And for the record I changed the names of the dogs in the previous passage, to help protect their anonymity.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 03:25 pm
Sturgis
Sturgis, isn't it sad that it takes having a homosexual son or daughter to make their parents understand they are born that way and that they should enjoy the same rights as everyone else?

Too many politicians having homosexual children privately say OK to them, but publicly are anti-homosexual for political reasons. Those hypocrites dishonor their children!

BBB
0 Replies
 
purplepanda1212
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 07:37 pm
BBB
I'm so sorry to be rude and I know this is, but I am having somewhat of a problem. This message is for BBB. A while ago I wrote about Civil rights and you posted a story about your friend Tazako. The story was useful to me and I am so thankful you shared it. The thing is that I want to use it in the paper I am writing but I need to have your name to do that (for citing purposes). Can you please send me an e-mail or something with your name. If you do not want to I understand. Thank you again for the story even if I dont get to use it in my paper I learned from it. Once again I am so sorry to have butted in like this. Embarrassed
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2005 06:20 am
Re: Sturgis
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

Too many politicians having homosexual children privately say OK to them, but publicly are anti-homosexual for political reasons. Those hypocrites dishonor their children!

BBB


Which has been my major beef with people such as Newt Gingrich and the late Sonny Bono.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2005 07:04 am
I am actually curious. What exactly was it about Kerry that turned so many people off? Was it just his kind monologue tone of voice or his stand on policies?

I wondered about that question all the election and never could really figure it out. If it was just his style, I never could see how Bush's style was any better. If neither one had style why didn't voters concentrate on substance?

I finally just settled on the fact that since we here in America are easily swayed by gimmicks and slogans, the flip flop gimmicks and swift boat veterans smear must of won the day.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2005 09:12 am
I've already shared with Phoenix that anyone who was so put off by Kerry that he/she actually voted for the moron...

...deserves to see and experience the result of their folly.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2005 07:37 pm
This question - in other contexts - has bedevilled me for years. If I can point to the fact that it happens all over the world I hope it doesn't disturb the thread. It has also happened through history.

When Benjamin Disraeli, who was a Prime Minister (one of two I think) who served during the reign of Queen Victoria, died, The Times published an obituary in which it asserted that part of Disraeli's brilliance as a politician was to appeal to the innate conservatism of the British working class who voted against their own obvious interests. The Times suggested Disraeli saw conservatism in the British working class "as a sculptor sees the angel in a rough piece of marble" (that might be wrong as I'm going from memory but it's along those lines).

There's a very interesting book on this tendency. Robert McKenzie and Allan Silver "Angels in Marble: Working Class Conservatives in Urban England". My copy is by a British publisher but there is a North American edition. It was published in 1968 and you might find one in a second hand bookshop (that's where I got mine).
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:28 am
0 Replies
 
 

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