In a religious context...what is "FAITH?"

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This whole "faith" thing in religious discussions...in a religious context...truly is an absurdity.

Theists have absolutely no way to prove...or even to provide reasonable evidence....that any of the tenets of their religions are facts. So they are left with defending guesses about the Ultimate REALITY.

The guesses...they refer to as beliefs.

Then they invoke "faith"...which obviously is merely insisting that the guesses (which they call beliefs) are correct NO MATTER WHAT.

In a relgious context, folks, "faith" is not the glorious, edifying thing theists want to paint it to be. It is not even a virtue, by any reasonable standard of measurement.

Faith...in a religious context...IS BULL HEADEDNESS plain and simple.

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Faith is the dogmatic belief in something in the absence of any logical proof or evidence. In the case of religious belief, the faith provides a matrix of behaviors, traditions, and ceremonies, which reinforce the believer's psychological connection to the faith.

One of the hallmarks of adherents' religious faith is they do not question the premises, but simply accept the precepts of the religion as truth without the tenets of the faith being open to intellectual scrutiny.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Faith is the dogmatic belief in something in the absence of any logical proof or evidence. In the case of religious belief, the faith provides a matrix of behaviors, traditions, and ceremonies, which reinforce the believer's psychological connection to the faith.

One of the hallmarks of adherents' religious faith is they do not question the premises, but simply accept the precepts of the religion as truth without the tenets of the faith being open to intellectual scrutiny.

Thanks, Phoenix...although I honestly prefer my definition. Twisted Evil

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Phoenix32890, I think faith and dogma are not the same things.

Most religions touch upon all of the life's relationships, so faith limited to religious context is not all that limited. Faith is an attribute of every relationship. Whether you refer to the faithfulness of your spouse or that of a religious devotee; faith can never be demanded. Faith is voluntary, allows itself to be questioned and can be like an intuitive postulate to begin with.

Dogma on the other hand is a demanded loyalty to some concept or written word. Dogma has no freedom to question itself, because it has to justify its own sustenance.

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blueSky wrote:

Phoenix32890, I think faith and dogma are not the same things.

Most religions touch upon all of the life's relationships, so faith limited to religious context is not all that limited. Faith is an attribute of every relationship. Whether you refer to the faithfulness of your spouse or that of a religious devotee; faith can never be demanded. Faith is voluntary, allows itself to be questioned ...

Are you suggesting that our Christian friends here "question" their faith?

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blueSky- It is according to your definition of faith:

Quote:

faith (fāth)
n.
Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.

Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.

Faith/ Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.

The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.

A set of principles or beliefs.

If you are referring to the first definition, you are absolutely right. You have faith that your friend will be on time, because over the years you have known her, she has been characteristically prompt. In this instance the "faith" is confidence based on prior experience. In my example, the word "confidence" is interchangable with "faith".

It is the 2nd definition, that relates to this discussion, and religious thought in general:

Quote:

Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

The body of a religion, or dogma, is yet another definition of faith.

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FrankApisa wrote:

Thanks, Phoenix...although I honestly prefer my definition.

That ain't a definition.............It's an editorial! :wink:

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

FrankApisa wrote:
Thanks, Phoenix...although I honestly prefer my definition.

That ain't a definition.............It's an editorial! :wink:

Okay...then I prefer my editorial. Twisted Evil

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unquestioning belief, total acceptance without proof.

Dogma are thespecific rules that govern a particular faith.

"They shall handle deadly serpents and it shall not harm them" the faith is the belief that the snakes wont harm you. Dogma is making you pick em up in the first place.

The rest of that quote is..."For they are incredibly stupid..."

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Frank Apisa wrote:

blueSky wrote:
Phoenix32890, I think faith and dogma are not the same things.

Most religions touch upon all of the life's relationships, so faith limited to religious context is not all that limited. Faith is an attribute of every relationship. Whether you refer to the faithfulness of your spouse or that of a religious devotee; faith can never be demanded. Faith is voluntary, allows itself to be questioned ...

Are you suggesting that our Christian friends here "question" their faith?

I know religious people of all types who do question their faith (read underlying assumptions) but if they have a dogma (a demanding central authority) also to deal with its threatening consequences, they have an additional problem of avoiding persecutions. I think faith in itself is not a vice as it sometimes appear to be, but having no freedom to question it is certainly a misery.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

blueSky wrote:
Phoenix32890, I think faith and dogma are not the same things.

Most religions touch upon all of the life's relationships, so faith limited to religious context is not all that limited. Faith is an attribute of every relationship. Whether you refer to the faithfulness of your spouse or that of a religious devotee; faith can never be demanded. Faith is voluntary, allows itself to be questioned ...

Are you suggesting that our Christian friends here "question" their faith?

2Corinthians 13:5: You remember that one; right?

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I don't question my faith as much as I question your motive and inspiration to publish this thread.

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Intrepid wrote:

I don't question my faith as much as I question your motive and inspiration to publish this thread.

I suspect you don't question your "faith" at all.

Too bad, that!

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Hello, the question of faith, Good topic. When man kind said the world was flat the bible said the world was round. People believed man that the world was flat and not the bible. Instead they should of had faith in the bible and believed the world was round like the bible said. Some years later we discovered the earth was round not flat. OH my having faith in the bible is not a bad thing is it. People are very far from knowing everything and it is their PRIDE that makes them cut down the bible and religion.

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JAMESDG wrote:

Hello, the question of faith, Good topic. When man kind said the world was flat the bible said the world was round. People believed man that the world was flat and not the bible. Instead they should of had faith in the bible and believed the world was round like the bible said. Some years later we discovered the earth was round not flat. OH my having faith in the bible is not a bad thing is it. People are very far from knowing everything and it is their PRIDE that makes them cut down the bible and religion.

Really.

Well...you should put some of your biblical faith into learning how to write a coherent sentence...and paragraph.

In any case...I am tired of listening to the nonsense that the Bible said the earth was round.

If you have a specific passage from the Bible telling us "The earth is a sphere" let's hear it.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

JAMESDG wrote:
Hello, the question of faith, Good topic. When man kind said the world was flat the bible said the world was round. People believed man that the world was flat and not the bible. Instead they should of had faith in the bible and believed the world was round like the bible said. Some years later we discovered the earth was round not flat. OH my having faith in the bible is not a bad thing is it. People are very far from knowing everything and it is their PRIDE that makes them cut down the bible and religion.

Really.

Well...you should put some of your biblical faith into learning how to write a coherent sentence...and paragraph.

In any case...I am tired of listening to the nonsense that the Bible said the earth was round.

If you have a specific passage from the Bible telling us "The earth is a sphere" let's hear it.

You remember Isaiah 40:22, don't you, Frank?

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what is "FAITH?"

.. Worship is one aspect, and trust is another.

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neologist wrote:

You remember Isaiah 40:22, don't you, Frank?

Isaiah 40:22 -- refers to the earth as a circle. A circle is not the same as sphere. It is quite conceivable that the writers conceived of a circular but flat earth. Furthermore, and if you are to employ wishful thinking and read "circle" as "sphere," what do ya do with verses like Isaiah 11:12 and Revelation 7:1 which refer to the earth as having four corners--i.e. being square or rectangular?

Draw a circle on a piece of paper. It may be round, but it's also flat, not spherical.
Matthew 4:8 says, "Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory." Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat, and that's what the men that wrote the bible thought.

"take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it (Job 38:12-13)

How could the earth be held by its "edges"? A sphere has no edges. Would the Job author have spoken of "edges" of the earth if he had known the earth was a sphere? Which makes more sense? The author imagined grabbing and shaking by the edges a flat earth, or the author imagined grabbing the ball of the earth by "edges" which don't exist? Before you answer, consider what else the same author had to say about how the earth is formed
The earth takes shape like clay under a seal. (Job 38:14)
This is the same author who spoke of grabbing the earth by its "edges." If the Job author had known the earth was round, would he have referred to edges which don't exist, and would he have compared it to clay seals, which are pressed flat?

They also thought it didn't move:
1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."
Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..."
Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."
Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."
Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."

Why a sphere would have foundations escapes me.

P

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neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
JAMESDG wrote:
Hello, the question of faith, Good topic. When man kind said the world was flat the bible said the world was round. People believed man that the world was flat and not the bible. Instead they should of had faith in the bible and believed the world was round like the bible said. Some years later we discovered the earth was round not flat. OH my having faith in the bible is not a bad thing is it. People are very far from knowing everything and it is their PRIDE that makes them cut down the bible and religion.

Really.

Well...you should put some of your biblical faith into learning how to write a coherent sentence...and paragraph.

In any case...I am tired of listening to the nonsense that the Bible said the earth was round.

If you have a specific passage from the Bible telling us "The earth is a sphere" let's hear it.
You remember Isaiah 40:22, don't you, Frank?

Yes I do, Neo.

What does that have to do with the earth being a sphere?

(See Pauligirl's post. She goes into much more detail.)

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Hello again, it seem that someone has a little little bad attitude, can every body extend a little hug :wink: . You were presented with truth from the bible about faith, and you want to lash out and cut down the comment and the person who made it. Yes I don't know how to spell, and wright sentences very well but why do I want to take the time to do so, this is just for fun, RIGHT! I don't have to be correct all the time do I? Or are you correct all the time and perfect? NO, no body is perfect on the earth so unless you are without sin cast the first stone at me and my words. It seems we all on this forum have a bitter and cynical person who has been wronged many times in her or his life. When you attack and lash out at peoples answers it gives proof that you cant defend your self, this is a religious forum, so you will find all most everybody here with faith except you. The bible is true and right and God JEHOVAH him self said so, it is equipped for every good work to reprove and set straight. So my question to you my friend is are you trying to say God is a LIER?

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In a religious context...what is "FAITH?"

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