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In a religious context...what is "FAITH?"

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 07:55 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
JAMESDG wrote:
Hello, the question of faith, Good topic. When man kind said the world was flat the bible said the world was round. People believed man that the world was flat and not the bible. Instead they should of had faith in the bible and believed the world was round like the bible said. Some years later we discovered the earth was round not flat. OH my having faith in the bible is not a bad thing is it. People are very far from knowing everything and it is their PRIDE that makes them cut down the bible and religion.


Really.

Well...you should put some of your biblical faith into learning how to write a coherent sentence...and paragraph.

In any case...I am tired of listening to the nonsense that the Bible said the earth was round.

If you have a specific passage from the Bible telling us "The earth is a sphere" let's hear it.
You remember Isaiah 40:22, don't you, Frank?


Yes I do, Neo.

What does that have to do with the earth being a sphere?

(See Pauligirl's post. She goes into much more detail.)
Sorry, Frank. It works for Joe Sixpack. You know. The bible wasn't written to impress Mensa members such as you and pauli.
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 08:32 am
I like the explanations of religious faith in this article:

Quote:
Theologian Paul Tillich has written, "There is hardly a word in the religious language - both thological and popular - which is subject to more misunderstandings, distortions, and questionable definitions, than the word, faith."

... On problem is that "faith" is confused with the word, "creed" - a set of specific, often unchanging, even mandatory, beliefs. Faith and creed are not synonyms. Creed comes from the Latin "credo" which does not mean "belief" but means "I set my heart to." It signifies loyalty, allegiance, honor, and value.

... Sharon Parks defines faith as the "activity of making meaning." To theologian Paul Tillich, "Faith is the state of being ultimately concerned." and, wrote religious historian William Castwell Smith, "Faith at its best has taken the form of a quiet confidence and joy which enable one to feel at home in the universe.


http://www.uua.org/programs/layleader/drivetime11.pdf
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JAMESDG
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 10:37 am
Good use of the bible pauligirl i will need to read the bible verses you quoted in order to reply. The psalms verses and chronicals verses and Isaiah verses you mentioned is talking about the earth being firmly established that it will last for ever and the earth will not be brought to ruin. It wont be destroyed in nuclear war or God will not destroy the earth and stuff.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 12:26 pm
neologist wrote:
Sorry, Frank. It works for Joe Sixpack. You know. The bible wasn't written to impress Mensa members such as you and pauli.


C'mon Neo, give Joe a little more credit than that. The Bible was written for and by people that thought the earth was flat. Actually the reason for using the terminology of a circle is easy to understand. If you go to a high point and look around, the horizon will appear to inscribe a circle on an apparent flat earth.
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djbt
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 05:04 pm
JAMESDG wrote:
Hello again, it seem that someone has a little little bad attitude, can every body extend a little hug :wink: . You were presented with truth from the bible about faith, and you want to lash out and cut down the comment and the person who made it. Yes I don't know how to spell, and wright sentences very well but why do I want to take the time to do so, this is just for fun, RIGHT! I don't have to be correct all the time do I? Or are you correct all the time and perfect? NO, no body is perfect on the earth so unless you are without sin cast the first stone at me and my words. It seems we all on this forum have a bitter and cynical person who has been wronged many times in her or his life. When you attack and lash out at peoples answers it gives proof that you cant defend your self, this is a religious forum, so you will find all most everybody here with faith except you.

I think quite a few of us don't have 'faith', or at least aren't sure what it is, so don't know if we have it or not....

Fair point about this being for fun, though, a2k can get a bit like debate idol from time to time...

JAMESDG wrote:
The bible is true and right and God JEHOVAH him self said so, it is equipped for every good work to reprove and set straight. So my question to you my friend is are you trying to say God is a LIER?

When did he say that? He's never said that to me. He's never said anything to me. Not even sure He exists. But some Gods are said to lie. Loki did (but then I guess technically he was a Titan, so maybe that doesn't count). Anyway, how do you know that God said the Bible is true and right? (Please don't say it says so in the Bible...)
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 06:39 pm
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
JAMESDG wrote:
Hello, the question of faith, Good topic. When man kind said the world was flat the bible said the world was round. People believed man that the world was flat and not the bible. Instead they should of had faith in the bible and believed the world was round like the bible said. Some years later we discovered the earth was round not flat. OH my having faith in the bible is not a bad thing is it. People are very far from knowing everything and it is their PRIDE that makes them cut down the bible and religion.


Really.

Well...you should put some of your biblical faith into learning how to write a coherent sentence...and paragraph.

In any case...I am tired of listening to the nonsense that the Bible said the earth was round.

If you have a specific passage from the Bible telling us "The earth is a sphere" let's hear it.
You remember Isaiah 40:22, don't you, Frank?


Oh, one other thing, Neo. Here is another quote from Isaiah...just a few paragraphs from your citation which supposedly shows the Bible helps us understand reality:

Isaiah 34:7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 08:54 pm
Unicorns; really? How about rhinoceros, another one horned animal? Actually the word re'em probably means wild ox or wild bull.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 08:55 pm
mesquite wrote:
neologist wrote:
Sorry, Frank. It works for Joe Sixpack. You know. The bible wasn't written to impress Mensa members such as you and pauli.


C'mon Neo, give Joe a little more credit than that. The Bible was written for and by people that thought the earth was flat. Actually the reason for using the terminology of a circle is easy to understand. If you go to a high point and look around, the horizon will appear to inscribe a circle on an apparent flat earth.
The world is round, no?
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satt fs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 09:11 pm
I wonder whether it is legitimate to pose a question: Is it totally wrong if a person thinks about the flat earth?
One lives on a tangent plane at a point of the Earth.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 09:16 pm
Faith is the belief in things not seen.

Everyone has it to some degree.
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auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 09:47 pm
Faith is having confidence in something.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 09:56 pm
But, not in something you can see.

<had this debate at school recently>
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 10:29 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Faith is the dogmatic belief in something in the absence of any logical proof or evidence. In the case of religious belief, the faith provides a matrix of behaviors, traditions, and ceremonies, which reinforce the believer's psychological connection to the faith.

One of the hallmarks of adherents' religious faith is they do not question the premises, but simply accept the precepts of the religion as truth without the tenets of the faith being open to intellectual scrutiny.



Interesting definition that you have chosen to emphasize, Phoenix. Indeed Merriam Webster lists something similar --"firm belief in something for which there is no proof " as one possible definition out of several options.

However, Merriam Webster also lists faith and belief as synonyms.

One of the definitions listed for belief is "conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence"

I wonder, have you ever considered any OTHER type of faith or belief except the one you seem to try to define ALL faith as?
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satt fs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 01:22 am
My definition: Faith is a complete trust (in God) as a form of worship.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 02:32 am
auroreII wrote:
Faith is having confidence in something.


"Faith" is much more than having confidence in something. Faith is insisting something is so...even though you have no way of know whether it is so or not.

It is not a virtue no matter how many theists want it to be. It is obstinance.
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auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 07:45 am
"...........Merriam Webster also lists faith and belief as synonyms."
I don't know if I would concur that belief and faith are synonyms since many people believe many different things. Isn't "nonbelief" belief in something, er nothing? Seems to me even nonbelievers can be obstinate. Faith would be putting confidence in beliefs. IMO those beliefs are influenced by many things, some seen and some unseen.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 12:57 pm
auroreII wrote:
"...........Merriam Webster also lists faith and belief as synonyms."
I don't know if I would concur that belief and faith are synonyms since many people believe many different things. Isn't "nonbelief" belief in something, er nothing? Seems to me even nonbelievers can be obstinate. Faith would be putting confidence in beliefs. IMO those beliefs are influenced by many things, some seen and some unseen.


No..."nonbelief" is just that...no belief.

If you are trying to suggest, however, that some atheists do stray off into "belief"...you are correct. Some do.

To their credit...most do not. Most simply say that they are not willing to "believe" in any gods.

Almost all agnostics...who most assuredly are "nonbelievers"...simply refuse to make a guess in either direction on the question of "Is there a God or are there no gods?"

And for certain...nonbelievers such as myself...can be obstinate.
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AllanSwann
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 01:08 pm
As always, I appreciate Frank's provocative (and many times, hilarious) posts. As a high school student in the early 70s during the then revived "Jesus Movement" era, I used to scrawl on my desk below the then prevalent graffiti "Jesus Saves" the epilogue "...Not wonder the Church is so rich".

Over the years, however, I've come to realize that rampant cynicism only gets ya so far and I've tried (perhaps feebly) to come to a fuller realization of why we're all here and what it means. I have HUGE problems with so-called "blind faith", but I've tried to believe more recently that someone or something has us here for a reason and I've chosen to believe that entity is inherently good. At the end, I might just find out that it was all metaphysical nonsense, but for now, at least today, I have faith that there is a God.
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auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 01:17 pm
Well that is just a question I've asked myself sometimes. Can there be such a thing as nothing for surely anything that I can imagine to be nothing would then be something. Another question is does the universe go on and on or does it ever stop. And if it stops then what is there? Nothing? These are just some philosophical questions that are a little off topic.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 01:35 pm
auroreII wrote:
Well that is just a question I've asked myself sometimes. Can there be such a thing as nothing for surely anything that I can imagine to be nothing would then be something. Another question is does the universe go on and on or does it ever stop. And if it stops then what is there? Nothing? These are just some philosophical questions that are a little off topic.


The answer to those questions...and most like them...is...

....I do not know.

In my own case, I like to add: And I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess.


I understand that reasonable, intelligent people can find that to be an uncomfortable postion to adopt.
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