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Sun 14 Aug, 2005 09:19 am
That says more than any ranting by us American hating liberals could ever say.
edgarblythe wrote:That says more than any ranting by us American hating liberals could ever say.
but the usual suspects will continue to kiss his ass.
Well, at least somebody is finally admitting that it was all pie-in-the-sky to begin with.
Re: Lowered Expectations
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
Bear, millions of people in the US and around the world are shouting through their tears, "We told you so; why didn't you listen?"
BBB
Bush slaps down top general after he calls for troops to be
Bush slaps down top general after he calls for troops to be pulled out of Iraq
By Philip Sherwell in Washington
The Guardian UK
(Filed: 14/08/2005)
The top American commander in Iraq has been privately rebuked by the Bush administration for openly discussing plans to reduce troop levels there next year, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.
President George W Bush personally intervened last week to play down as "speculation" all talk of troop pull-outs because he fears that even discussing options for an "exit strategy" implies weakening resolve.
General George Casey
Gen George Casey, the US ground commander in Iraq, was given his dressing-down after he briefed that troop levels - now 138,000 - could be reduced by 30,000 in the early months of next year as Iraqi security forces take on a greater role.
The unusual sign of US discord came as Iraqi politicians and clerics drafting a new constitution continued their own wrangling over autonomy demands by various factions.
Jalal Talabani, the Iraqi president and a Kurd, predicted that a draft of the new constitution should be ready today, 24 hours ahead of Monday's deadline, but other delegates were less optimistic.
"If God is willing, tomorrow it will be ready," Mr Talabani told a news conference in Baghdad yesterday, but admitted that two significant issues remained unresolved: the question of federalism in the south, and the relation between religion and state.
Shia Muslims, who lead Iraq's interim coalition government, are pushing for a clause saying that all laws passed by parliament must be compatible with Islam - a proposal most other participants oppose.
Meanwhile, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Qaeda's leader in Iraq, threatened to kill any imam who backs the constitution, according to a statement posted on the internet yesterday but whose origin could not be independently verified.
Cindy Sheehan protesting outside Mr Bush's ranch
Mr Bush is expected to place phone calls to some of the senior Iraqi negotiators in Baghdad if the deadlock remains. Last week as he came under renewed pressure from anti-war protesters to pull out, he dismissed any prospect of an immediate troop withdrawal. Mr Bush was responding to calls by Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who has set up a protest camp outside his ranch in Crawford, Texas, where Mr Bush is on holiday.
Politically, the administration will be under pressure to signal a significant cut in the US presence by autumn next year to help Republicans fighting mid-term elections in November 2006. Military commanders, however, also need to wind down numbers, the imperative that prompted Gen Casey's comments, according to Dan Goure, a Pentagon adviser and vice-president of the Lexington Institute defence think-tank.
"It's number-driven," Mr Goure said. "The military can only maintain these levels in Iraq if it has absolutely no choice. Otherwise, the current pattern of rotations and other commitments mean that they will have to lower numbers."
There will, in any case, be a short-term increase in US troop levels to cover the Iraq elections scheduled for December. After that, said Mr Goure, the military has drawn up three broad strategies for cutting troops.
Their "best scenario" target is to reduce numbers to 60,000-70,000 by next autumn if Iraqi forces start to make progress against the insurgents. The fall-back option would be Gen Casey's minimum 30,000 reduction by the summer.
There is also a rarely-mentioned "Plan C" - complete withdrawal if all-out civil war erupts between the Shias and Sunnis, both of whom are engaged in a last-ditch battle for political territory in the current negotiations.
The Kurds and Shia Arabs want strong regional governments to be created in their northern and southern strongholds. But the minority Sunni Arabs, who dominated the country under Saddam Hussein, fear that they will be left with the central dust-bowl.
Sunni religious leaders, who led the boycott of January's elections, are now calling for their followers to register to vote in case they decide to oppose the constitution's federalism clauses in October's referendum.
The constitution will be considered void if it is rejected by two-thirds of voters in three provinces. Sunnis form a majority in four provinces.
Re: Lowered Expectations
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:blueveinedthrobber wrote:
Bear, millions of people in the US and around the world are shouting through their tears, "We told you so; why didn't you listen?"
BBB
through tears for some, bbb. through clenched teeth for others.
what a surprise. the iraqis didn't suddenly go, "oh. we have been wrong all along. quick, someone open a subway shop so we can have a nice ham sandwich !".
Define "lowered expectations".
Did they or did they not secure Iraqi oil reserves for American corporations?
The expectations were too high to begin with
candidone1 wrote:Define "lowered expectations".
Did they or did they not secure Iraqi oil reserves for American corporations?
I was trying to avoid the obvious :wink:
Re: Bush slaps down top general after he calls for troops to
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:Bush slaps down top general after he calls for troops to be pulled out of Iraq
By Philip Sherwell in Washington
The Guardian UK
(Filed: 14/08/2005)
The top American commander in Iraq has been privately rebuked by the Bush administration for openly discussing plans to reduce troop levels there next year, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.
President George W Bush personally intervened last week to play down as "speculation" all talk of troop pull-outs because he fears that even discussing options for an "exit strategy" implies weakening resolve.
General George Casey
Gen George Casey, the US ground commander in Iraq, was given his dressing-down after he briefed that troop levels - now 138,000 - could be reduced by 30,000 in the early months of next year as Iraqi security forces take on a greater role.
The unusual sign of US discord came as Iraqi politicians and clerics drafting a new constitution continued their own wrangling over autonomy demands by various factions.
Jalal Talabani, the Iraqi president and a Kurd, predicted that a draft of the new constitution should be ready today, 24 hours ahead of Monday's deadline, but other delegates were less optimistic.
"If God is willing, tomorrow it will be ready," Mr Talabani told a news conference in Baghdad yesterday, but admitted that two significant issues remained unresolved: the question of federalism in the south, and the relation between religion and state.
Shia Muslims, who lead Iraq's interim coalition government, are pushing for a clause saying that all laws passed by parliament must be compatible with Islam - a proposal most other participants oppose.
Meanwhile, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Qaeda's leader in Iraq, threatened to kill any imam who backs the constitution, according to a statement posted on the internet yesterday but whose origin could not be independently verified.
Cindy Sheehan protesting outside Mr Bush's ranch
Mr Bush is expected to place phone calls to some of the senior Iraqi negotiators in Baghdad if the deadlock remains. Last week as he came under renewed pressure from anti-war protesters to pull out, he dismissed any prospect of an immediate troop withdrawal. Mr Bush was responding to calls by Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who has set up a protest camp outside his ranch in Crawford, Texas, where Mr Bush is on holiday.
Politically, the administration will be under pressure to signal a significant cut in the US presence by autumn next year to help Republicans fighting mid-term elections in November 2006. Military commanders, however, also need to wind down numbers, the imperative that prompted Gen Casey's comments, according to Dan Goure, a Pentagon adviser and vice-president of the Lexington Institute defence think-tank.
"It's number-driven," Mr Goure said. "The military can only maintain these levels in Iraq if it has absolutely no choice. Otherwise, the current pattern of rotations and other commitments mean that they will have to lower numbers."
There will, in any case, be a short-term increase in US troop levels to cover the Iraq elections scheduled for December. After that, said Mr Goure, the military has drawn up three broad strategies for cutting troops.
Their "best scenario" target is to reduce numbers to 60,000-70,000 by next autumn if Iraqi forces start to make progress against the insurgents. The fall-back option would be Gen Casey's minimum 30,000 reduction by the summer.
There is also a rarely-mentioned "Plan C" - complete withdrawal if all-out civil war erupts between the Shias and Sunnis, both of whom are engaged in a last-ditch battle for political territory in the current negotiations.
The Kurds and Shia Arabs want strong regional governments to be created in their northern and southern strongholds. But the minority Sunni Arabs, who dominated the country under Saddam Hussein, fear that they will be left with the central dust-bowl.
Sunni religious leaders, who led the boycott of January's elections, are now calling for their followers to register to vote in case they decide to oppose the constitution's federalism clauses in October's referendum.
The constitution will be considered void if it is rejected by two-thirds of voters in three provinces. Sunnis form a majority in four provinces.
Besides a claim from the author of the "story" I don't see any proof of a dressing down of a general by the President. This was a weak swipe of the admin by a foreign paper. Could you post something with a little more facts in it? Just so you know it wouldn't be the job of the Commander in Chief to dress down the general in Iraq. That would come from his direct chain of command.
ehBeth wrote:LA Times
Quote:Then on Thursday, Bush dismissed as "rumors" and "speculation" reports that U.S. commanders were contemplating significant withdrawals of American troops from Iraq next year. His comments came after Army Gen. George W. Casey, the top U.S. military official in Iraq, and Army Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, the top ground commander, had publicly raised exactly that possibility.
This dissonance on message is unusual in an administration that prides itself on coordination and discipline.
"The president has now twice in effect overruled or corrected" the Pentagon, said Bill Kristol, editor of the conservative Weekly Standard. "I think the president realizes how much damage was being done by the appearance coming out of the Pentagon of seeking urgently to get out" of Iraq.
we wouldn't want to disappoint mr. kristol, who as long ago as late 2003 was hoping that bush could "get another war in before the end of his term".
he's also the chairman of the project for the new american century.
The real capitol gang.
<nods>
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