18
   

Putin's war

 
 
Mame
 
  2  
Wed 9 Mar, 2022 01:31 pm
@Albuquerque,
I don't know where you're coming from other than way out in left field.

Where do you get this from?

"Side note, the argument that this is a war between dictators and democrats is patently false and intends to simplify and misinform the general public. "

And this?

"I am totally convinced a Russian Democratic elected President would invade Ukraine exactly like Putin did..."
Albuquerque
 
  0  
Wed 9 Mar, 2022 03:02 pm
No comments:
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Wed 9 Mar, 2022 03:50 pm
@Albuquerque,
Sky news, Really.

A Sky news smear does not an argument make, regardless of the purely argumentative nature of your "refute".
0 Replies
 
Albuquerque
 
  0  
Wed 9 Mar, 2022 06:53 pm
@Mame,
1 -Because it is not a war between democracies vs dictatorships, that argument is laughable, but rather a war on vital resources both for the west and for Russia.

2 - Because any semi competent not comatose democratic elected Russian leader would never let the west get Ukraine period.

No this has not ANY political affiliation, you take it as you want!

Ukraine is a strategic target for both sides and any competent leader in Ukraine would have staid neutral and with good relations with Russia.
This is obvious, this is a fact, this is the Truth!
roger
 
  3  
Wed 9 Mar, 2022 09:09 pm
@Albuquerque,
But, isn't it difficult to stay neutral and maintain good relations when you've been invaded?
glitterbag
 
  3  
Wed 9 Mar, 2022 09:26 pm
@roger,
Depends on how hospitable you are.
roger
 
  2  
Wed 9 Mar, 2022 09:46 pm
@glitterbag,
Them Ukrainians do seem to be displaying a certain lack of hospitality, don't they?
glitterbag
 
  2  
Wed 9 Mar, 2022 09:52 pm
@roger,
You just wait until Miss Manners finds out.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 07:14 am
https://i.imgur.com/btVqKZI.jpg

Former national security adviser John Bolton said Wednesday that one of the reasons that Russian President Vladimir Putin did not move to invade Ukraine during former President Trump's term in office was that he saw "Trump doing a lot of his work for him."

He said in an interview on SiriusXM's "Julie Mason Mornings" that he thought maybe in a second term, Trump would "make good" on his "desire to get out of NATO," which would then ease Putin's path forward.

Bolton said he believes that the Russian president thinks "a weaker NATO" equals a "stronger Russia."

He made similar comments during a Washington Post Live event on Friday, saying that Putin was "waiting" for a possible United States withdrawal from NATO and that former Trump would have likely made such a move had he been reelected.

(snip)

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/597523-bolton-putin-saw-trump-doing-a-lot-of-his-work-for-him
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  3  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 07:43 am
@roger,
roger wrote:

Them Ukrainians do seem to be displaying a certain lack of hospitality, don't they?

Understatement has a disarming and moderating effect. It's difficult for polarized people to deal with it. It's a thousand times better than hyperbole.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 09:48 am
https://i.imgur.com/0AqfR7g.png
0 Replies
 
Albuquerque
 
  -2  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 09:49 am
More on Zelenskyy:
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 10:03 am
4 Falsehoods Russians Are Told About the War

Russia’s disinformation machine is working in overdrive inside its own borders.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/technology/disinformation-russia-ukraine.html

By Stuart A. Thompson

March 10, 2022, 9:58 a.m. ET

Russia’s international disinformation campaign seemed to flounder in the early days of the invasion, as narratives about Ukrainian bravery dominated the internet. But in Russia, the country’s propaganda machine was busy churning out a deluge of misinformation aimed at its own citizens.

The narrative disseminated online through state-run and unofficial channels has helped create an alternate reality where the invasion is justified and Ukrainians are to blame for violence. To control the narrative at home, Russia also shut down access to several websites and threatened the news media with long prison sentences for criticizing the war. There’s some evidence that the effort has mollified at least some Russians.

A headline from the Russian state news website Tass claims that neo-Nazis are using civilians as human shields.

Some of the most disturbing images from the war have come from Mariupol, a port city in the southeastern coast. Shelling battered the region, killing several civilians who were trying to flee the area, during what was supposed to be a cease-fire.

But Russians got a different explanation online: Ukrainians had fired on Russian forces during the cease-fire, and neo-Nazis were “hiding behind civilians as a human shield,” according to the Russian state news website Tass.

Neo-Nazis have been a recurring character in Russian propaganda campaigns for years, used to falsely justify military action against Ukraine in what Russian officials have called “denazification.” Those claims have only continued during the conflict. To explain away attacks on other Ukrainian apartment buildings, the same article by Tass claimed that neo-Nazis had placed “heavy weapons in apartment buildings, while some residents are forcibly kept in their homes,” providing no evidence.

Russian social media accounts have used a mix of fake and unconfirmed photos showing Ukrainian soldiers holding Nazi flags or photos of Hitler. An analysis by the Center for Information Resilience, a nonprofit focused on identifying disinformation, showed that the number of tweets connecting Ukrainians to Nazis soared after the invasion began.

A headline from the Russian state news website Tass claims that Ukrainians provoked an attack at a nuclear power plant.

But according to a Kremlin statement reported in Tass, the military seized the facility to prevent Ukrainians and neo-Nazis from “organizing provocations fraught with catastrophic consequences.” Even though Ukrainians heavily fortified the region against an attack, Russian officials claimed they already had control of the compound before Ukrainians opened fire. They added that Ukrainians set fire to an adjacent building before fleeing, providing no evidence. Western experts said controlling the Zaporizhzhia complex would allow Russia to trigger blackouts or shut down the entire power grid.

The image of Russia as a world protector surfaced again after the country’s officials claimed they discovered evidence that Ukraine was working on a nuclear bomb. According to Russian officials, plans for the bomb were uncovered at the abandoned Chernobyl nuclear power plant.

“It doesn’t even make sense, because if you’re going to develop a nuclear weapon, you don’t do your secret development in a nuclear power plant,” Mr. Vaux said. “But that kind of thing is just being beamed out on Russian state TV.”

After Russia shelled a residential neighborhood, Russians claimed Ukrainians did it.

An attack on Kharkiv, a northeast Ukraine city bordering Russia, provided additional evidence that Russia had indiscriminately bombed residential neighborhoods and killed civilians, according to the Atlantic Council, an American research group. The International Criminal Court opened an investigation into war crimes after the assault.

In one attack that included heavy shelling, 34 civilians were killed and 285 were injured, according to the Ukrainian State Emergency Service.
A post from the Telegram channel for the Russian news site Readovka describes two missile strikes on civilians as coming from Ukrainian-held territory.

But Russians listening to state media or browsing channels on Telegram heard another story: The missiles, those sources claimed, came from Ukrainian territory.

On the ground. As the war in Ukraine enters its third week, the Russian advance appears to have slowed. At the same time, destruction across Ukraine is growing, as Russia increases its targeting of residential areas and civilian infrastructure with long-range missiles.

No agreement. The Foreign Ministers of Ukraine and Russia met in Turkey, for the first time since the start of the war, and failed to stop the fighting. Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia declared that a cease-fire was never up for discussion.

Chernobyl nuclear facility. The International Atomic Energy Agency said that the defunct power plant had been disconnected from electricity, though there was no need for immediate alarm. A power loss could affect the facility’s ability to keep the water that cools radioactive material circulating and lead to safety issues.

On the diplomatic front. Vice President Kamala Harris visited Poland, where she repeated U.S. pledges to “defend every inch of NATO territory,” while sidestepping questions about Poland’s offer, rejected by the Pentagon, to hand fighter jets over to the United States to transfer to Ukraine.

On a Telegram channel for the Russian news site Readovka, one post described how “Ukrainian missiles” had “arrived from the northwest” — an area controlled by the Ukrainian military.

Russia’s defense department said that it never attacked cities, instead targeting “military infrastructure” with “high-precision weapons,” according to an article in the state-owned news agency RIA Novosti.
After attacks bloodied civilians, Russians called injured Ukrainians crisis actors.

A woman who survived a blast at her apartment building became the focus of disinformation efforts after her bloodied and bandaged photograph spread widely through newspapers and Western media.

The woman was a resident of an apartment complex in Chuhuiv, near Kharkiv. The photojournalist Alex Lourie captured her portrait after the attack, and the image was soon featured on the front pages of newspapers around the world.

A post from the Telegram channel War on Fakes falsely claims a woman photographed after an attack on a residential region in eastern Ukraine could be a member of the Ukrainian territorial defence.

But Russian social media channels falsely described her as a member of Ukraine’s psychological operations unit, according to an analysis by the Ukrainian fact-checking website StopFake.

A post by “War on Fakes,” a pro-Russian website and Telegram channel that appeared at the start of the invasion, suggested that the blood could be grape juice and that the woman could be “part of the territorial defense.” As evidence, the post included a shot of another woman bearing some resemblance. That image came from a New York Times photograph, which was taken in Kyiv — a seven-hour drive west of Chuhuiv.

Stuart A. Thompson is a reporter in the technology department covering misinformation and disinformation.

@stuartathompson
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 10:41 am
https://64.media.tumblr.com/477999545611234588421f4b92cc10a0/9056478de315592c-40/s540x810/56a5924bca24e456e0e14489249208e3ccfbe619.jpg
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  2  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 12:15 pm
All that's going on in the world and you guys are still on Trump?

Wow.
Albuquerque
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 01:03 pm
@McGentrix,
Man from my POV Trump is horrible but you do have a point!

I also find amusing that people acttually believe disinformation is a one way street, pathetic!
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 02:49 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

All that's going on in the world and you guys are still on Trump?

Wow.


Yeah, what about Hillary's email...........why can't we get back to that?
Mame
 
  3  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 03:57 pm
@glitterbag,
Let's talk Watergate! That was a good one Smile
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 03:57 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:

Yeah, what about Hillary's email...........why can't we get back to that?


You mean to say that some point, he actually got off "Hillary's e-mails"?
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Thu 10 Mar, 2022 04:14 pm
Captured Russian soldiers: We will be 'dead' if we are sent back home
Russian soldiers captured by Ukrainian forces have said they will be “dead” if they return home, where they will be regarded as failures and killed.

Captured troops - who have been filmed in breach of the Geneva Convention - have begged not to be sent back to Russia, fearing they will be shot by their own people.

One soldier, speaking at a press conference in Kyiv, said that he had been told by his parents that a funeral had already been prepared for him.

The soldier, deployed with Russia's 2nd Motor Rifle Division, said: "In Russia, we are already considered dead. I was given the opportunity to call my parents and they told me that a funeral for me had already been arranged.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/captured-russian-soldiers-dead-sent-144033819.html
0 Replies
 
 

 
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