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Putin's war

 
 
snood
 
  4  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 07:27 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

I heard a commentator talking about the likelihood of someone removing Putin. The trouble is that over the past twenty years "Pooty-Poo" (remember that one?) has crafted the government in such a way that he is the only one who knows how it works! And even members of his inner circle are kept at a physical distance. If someone did succeed, he would have no way of exerting control over the military or the actual workings of the state. There would need to be a coordinated plan among a committed group of insiders and it's really difficult to see how this would occur, given the degree of surveillance and paranoia over possible informants.


I understand the problem you describe here, of how difficult it would be to take up the reins of power if Putin was eliminated. But suppose the aim of assassinating Putin was to cut off the head of the monster breathing fire on Ukraine and thereby stop the main motivating force for the evil invasion and whatever follow up (if any) he was planning? If the purpose of killing him was just for the effect that losing their chief would have on his destructive plans, and take their chances on anarchy, that might be worth it to some.
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 08:25 am
@hightor,
I actually think the points in your article would cause the outcome of Putin’s assassination to be even more of a boon to the long suffering Russian people and the rest of the world. Let it be such a morass that it is thrown in the garbage and reinvented better.
I think the majority of the Russian people would welcome Putin’s demise.

Most of the Graham’s critics seemed to be only concerned that he said it—not the idea of doing it.

shhhh. 😎
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 08:27 am
@snood,
Probably not the best move for an elected official to be suggesting this, though:

HCR wrote:
(...)

The U.S., and other countries that belong to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, are supporting Ukraine from outside its borders. For NATO to take on the fight against Putin’s armies directly in Ukraine runs the risk of uniting the currently demoralized Russian people behind their leader, and enables him to start a war against NATO, which would engulf all of Europe.

Tonight, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham crossed that line when, on Fox News Channel personality Sean Hannity’s television show, he called for someone to assassinate Putin. He then repeated his comment on Twitter. This was an astonishing propaganda coup for Putin, enabling him to argue that he is indeed in a war with America, rather than engaging in an unprovoked attack on neighboring Ukraine. This is exactly what the Biden administration has gone out of its way to avoid.

It was an astonishing moment… and also an interesting one. It undermines the position of the U.S. and our partners and allies, but in whose service? After initially opposing Trump’s reach for the presidency, Graham threw in his lot utterly with the former president, who has many possible reasons both to undermine Biden and to keep Putin in power. Perhaps Graham’s comment was intended to help Trump. Or perhaps Graham might have simply made a colossally stupid mistake. Whatever the case, the enormous implications of his statement make it one that would be a mistake to ignore.

Graham was not the only one to bolster Putin’s position today. Tucker Carlson tonight told his audience that indeed he was wrong in his earlier defense of the Russian president but then continued to stoke the same racist and sexist fires he has fed all along, blaming his misreading of the situation on Vice President Kamala Harris.

(...)

substack

shhhh....
snood
 
  5  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 08:32 am
@hightor,
That’s two different topics. No, an American official shouldn’t be suggesting this.

I was addressing the issue of what effects killing Putin would have.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 08:52 am
As well as removing Russian vodka from its shelves, Sainsbury's Supermarket is changing the spelling of chicken Kyiv from the Soviet spelling Kiev to the one preferred by Ukraine.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 08:54 am
@snood,
I understand. Lash brought up Graham and I'd never overlook an opportunity to shed a critical light on that duplicitous piece of crap.

A meteorite scoring a direct hit on his dacha would still be dangerous, just because of the anarchy that might result. But I wouldn't mourn his loss.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -4  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 09:08 am
@coluber2001,
coluber2001 wrote:
Beau of the Fifth Column

Let's talk about whether Putin already lost....

...this [war] would position Russia as a great power again.

What actually happened, it reunited NATO. You know after Trump, after his tenure, the projections were years, multiple administrations were going to have to work really really hard to bring NATO back together because it was kind of fractured because trump undermined it. Putin was able to accomplish that in a week.

Trump didn't undermine NATO. He merely asked that the members pay the amount of money they had pledged to, which was the right thing to do.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 09:30 am
@Brandon9000,
Just two quotes.

“America has no vital interest in choosing between warring factions whose animosities go back centuries in Eastern Europe.”
“Their conflicts are not worth American lives. Pulling back from Europe would save this country millions of dollars annually. The cost of stationing NATO troops in Europe is enormous. And these are clearly funds that can be put to better use.”
(Donald Trump: America we deserve, 2010, Renaissance Books, ISBN 1580631312)

In a 2016 interview with The New York Times, Trump described NATO as “obsolete” and “unfair, economically, to … the United States". (Transscript)



hightor
 
  2  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 09:32 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
He merely asked that the members pay the amount of money they had pledged to, which was the right thing to do.


If that was all he said about the alliance you'd have a point. But he raised the idea of the USA actually withdrawing from the alliance, both publicly and privately, and often criticized its relevance.

Quote:
A move to withdraw from the alliance, in place since 1949, “would be one of the most damaging things that any president could do to U.S. interests,” said Michèle A. Flournoy, an under secretary of defense under President Barack Obama.

“It would destroy 70-plus years of painstaking work across multiple administrations, Republican and Democratic, to create perhaps the most powerful and advantageous alliance in history,” Ms. Flournoy said in an interview. “And it would be the wildest success that Vladimir Putin could dream of.”

Retired Adm. James G. Stavridis, the former supreme allied commander of NATO, said an American withdrawal from the alliance would be “a geopolitical mistake of epic proportion.”

“Even discussing the idea of leaving NATO — let alone actually doing so — would be the gift of the century for Putin,” Admiral Stavridis said.

source
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 09:49 am
@coluber2001,
coluber2001 wrote:

(quote)
For those who have been going to bat for Putin on this,


Are you referring to people on A2K? Who is batting for Putin?
coluber2001
 
  2  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 10:04 am
I imagine the cult-of-personality worship of Putin in Russia is similar to that of Trump in America. Assassinating Putin wouldn't help the Russian people anymore than turning a work horse out into the wild. It would make us feel good, but the horse would be lost. When that monster Stalin died, the Russian people were filled with an unimaginable grief.

Super Putin: Do Russians Really Love Their President?
BY MARC BENNETTS ON 02/07/18

"In Russia, poverty, corruption and inequality are rampant. So why do so many here seem to love Vladimir Putin?"

https://www.newsweek.com/2018/02/16/russians-love-putin-800256.html

"Most people in Russia don't think there is anything wrong with one person being in power for life, like the czar. 'They have an infantile belief in the authorities,' Donskoi says.'"
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 10:17 am
'They have an infantile belief in the authorities,' Donskoi says.'"

Lot of that going around.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 10:22 am
Hmm. I have no idea about the political pecking order in Russia…
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 10:33 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

That’s two different topics. No, an American official shouldn’t be suggesting this.


Ew. I agree with Snood on something...
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 10:46 am
Ugh. Putin reconstituted his government recently; somebody should be writing an evaluation of what Putin drew up and who is holding ancillary power.

Medvedev. Threatened France days ago.

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/russia-ukraine-war/story/do-not-forget-russia-dmitry-medvedev-france-real-war-ukraine-invasion-1919436-2022-03-01

Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 10:51 am
Some back story.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481.amp

Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of ‘Soviet’ Russia
28 March 2014

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 11:10 am
Another recent-ish Putin headline.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/putin-cements-power-as-russian-lawmakers-approve-his-new-prime-minister

The whole thing:

Putin cements power as Russian lawmakers approve his new prime minister
By — Vladimir Isachenkov, Associated Press
World Jan 16, 2020 7:43 AM EST

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian lawmakers on Thursday quickly approved the appointment of a new prime minister, a day after President Vladimir Putin kicked off an unexpected reshuffle of his inner circle that could keep him in power well past the end of his term in 2024.

Mikhail Mishustin, the chief of Russia's tax service, met with lawmakers from various factions in the State Duma ahead of the confirmation vote in the Kremlin-controlled lower house.

Mishustin vowed to focus on social issues and improve living standards.

"We have all the necessary resources to fulfill the goals set by the president," he said. "The president wants the Cabinet to spearhead economic growth and help create new jobs. Raising real incomes is a priority for the government."

Mishustin succeeds Dmitry Medvedev, a Putin associate who was Russia's prime minister for eight years. Medvedev resigned hours after Putin proposed sweeping changes to the constitution.

Medvedev served as president in 2008-2012, keeping the seat warm for Putin who continued calling the shots as prime minister when he was forced to step down from the top job due to term limits. Under Medvedev, the constitution was amended to extend the presidential term from four years to six, although it limits the leader to two consecutive terms.

Putin has kept his longtime ally Medvedev in his close circle, appointing him to the newly created post of deputy head of the presidential Security Council.

The 53-year-old Mishustin is a career bureaucrat who has worked as the tax chief for the past 10 years, keeping a low profile and showing no political ambitions. He has won a good reputation among experts who praised him for boosting tax collection and streamlining Russia's rigid tax administration system.

The reshuffle sent shock waves through Russia's political elites, who were left pondering what Putin's intentions were and speculating about future Cabinet appointments.

A constitutional reform that Putin announced in a state-of-the-nation address indicated he was working to carve out a new governing position for himself after his current six-year term ends in 2024, although it remains unclear what specific path he will take to stay in charge.

Putin has been in power longer than any other Russian or Soviet leader since Josef Stalin, who led from 1924 until his death in 1953. Under the current law, Putin must step down when his current term ends.

Putin suggested amending the constitution to allow lawmakers to name prime ministers and Cabinet members. The president currently holds the authority to make those appointments.

At the same time, Putin argued that Russia would not remain stable if it were governed under a parliamentary system. The president should retain the right to dismiss the prime minister and Cabinet ministers, to name top defense and security officials, and to be in charge of the Russian military and law enforcement agencies, he said.

In his address, Putin said the constitution must also specify the authority of the State Council consisting of regional governors and top federal officials.

Putin on Thursday attended a meeting of the working group to draft constitutional amendments, saying they are intended to "strengthen the role of civil society, political parties and regions in making decisions about state development."

Observers speculated that Putin might try to stay in charge by shifting into the prime minister's seat again after increasing the powers of parliament and the Cabinet and trimming presidential authority.

Others suggested that he could also try to continue pulling the strings as head of the council and could even shift into a new position before his term ends.

Another potential option is a merger with neighboring Belarus that would create a new position of the head of a new unified state. That prospect that has been rejected by Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, an autocratic ruler who has been in power for more than quarter century.

Putin said that the constitutional changes need to be approved by a public vote, but officials said it doesn't imply a referendum and it wasn't immediately clear how it will be organized.

___

Daria Litvinova in Moscow contributed to this report.


0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 11:12 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Ugh. Putin reconstituted his government recently;
The current composition of the Russian government under Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin has been in place since 21 January 2020.
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 11:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes. I’d read it.

These changes Putin has made in the political structure of Russia during the last decade are relatively recent, historically speaking.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  5  
Fri 4 Mar, 2022 12:06 pm
@McGentrix,
Both Builder and VAB girl have been pushing Russian propaganda.

They're the worst offenders but most Trumpies support Putin, this war is like hundreds of Sandy Hooks, and they love that.

 

 
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