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THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM

 
 
Setanta
 
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 08:58 pm
Frequently, when silly partisanship blinds members and they flail one another with words, "left" and "right" are carelessly bandied about. Although it is frequently pointed out to the Americans by our other members that these labels seem absurd to them, the use of them persists. I think it useful to review the political spectrum, therefore, despite the likelihood that some may use such a thread as a soapbox from which to excoriate those with whom they disagree.

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In October, 1789, one of the journées of the French Revolution took place. A journée is a day's work or travel (hence, the english word journey), as opposed to un jour, which is simply a day. In the context of the French Revolution, the term is used by historians to denote days (or a few days) upon which a significant event took place. The revolution was precipitated by a series of events, which began with the failure of the wheat harvest in 1788, due to a wide-spread storm in northern France which had ruined the crop. The financial incompetence of the royal government lead to a crisis in which the King called the Estates to sit, but it is important to remember that successful revolutions require the participation of the people--the middle class cannot accomplish such things on their own. Just as with armies, revolutions need cannon fodder.

On October 3, 1789, aristocratic French officers had held a dinner at which they had ridiculed the new National Assembly (as the Estates had become) and trampled into the ground a symbol of the revolution and the abolition of feudalism, the red and blue cockade (an ornament for hats or coats). Their hosts, unfortunately, were the officers of la garde Française, a regiment which had mutinied even before the storming of the Bastille in the previous July, charging their officers with peculation (the theft of public monies entrusted to an official, in this case, the soldier's pay). Bailly, the mayor of Paris, quickly got word of the event, and the soldiers spread the news through the streets. October 4 was sultry and tension reigned in the city. Early the following morning, the women of the main market in Paris, when trying to buy bread, were told that little was available, because no wheat had been milled, and no flour was available. Charging this to speculators who were hoarding grain (they were absolutely correct), they began to riot, attacking bakeries to take the bread by main force, and turning over the stalls of the hawkers in the streets. This is more significant than a modern person might understand, as bread was literally the staff of life to European peasants of the day--a working man might eat four to six pounds of bread a day, and little else, and rarely any meat. People literally could not feed their families, and members of the very middle class which were leading the revolution were growing rich and fat off the circumstance.

And so October 5, 1789, became the second great journée of the revolution--the Day of the Market Women. Agitators had attempted to arouse the regiments in Paris the day before after word of the officers' dinner had gotten out, but Lafayette and the National Guard had patrolled the streets and kept a lid on trouble. Now the market women began to sing and to march, and they headed to Versailles. The National Guard were not going to stop them, and the agitators (Carlisle alleges that some dressed in women's clothing for the purpose) fell in with the marchers to whip up their anger. Arriving at Versailles, they demanded entry, and when refused, they assaulted the soldiers on guard, killing and mutilating one, and broke into the palace. The Queen and her children were literally lead out one door as the market women broke down the opposite door. They ransacked the room, bouncing on the bed, trying on and then shredding the Queen's night gowns, commenting on how well the "aristos" had it in comparison to themselves.

Finally, after the Queen had come out on to a balcony with her son to appeal for order, and had been driven off with stones and offal thrown at her, a palace official negotiated an end to the riot the following morning, October 6, 1789, when it was agreed that the King and his family would travel to Paris. The King and his family were installed in the Tuileries Palace, and the National Assembly, now the National Constituent Assembly (meaning they were to constitute a new government), was installed in le Manège, the former riding school. The royal color of France, white, was added to the revolutionary cockade, and the red, white and blue flag of France was born (the red and blue had been the heraldic colors of Paris).

From the table of the President of the Assembly, as he looked out over the delegates, the hard line "obstructionists" were to his right, Mirabeau and the "left-center" constitutional monarchists were immediately in front of him, and Danton and the Girondistes, as well as other republicans, were on the left. Hence, our terms for conservatives as on the right, and "radicals" as on the left. (The terms conservative, liberal and radical do not appear in the English language in a political context, however, until after the Peterloo massacre of trades unionists in 1819, and the fight over the reform bill in 1830.)

Significantly, however, the true radicals (Danton and the Girondistes would have been happy simply to abolish the monarchy and establish a republic, ending the revolution) were lead by Marat and Robespierre, and they sat above and behind the factional leaders in front of the President, in the area which became known as The Mountain. It was at this time that the members of the Assembly lost their cohesion (and to a large extent, their focus) and splintered into factions.

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After the final defeat of Napoleon in 1815, the leaders of the victorious nations assembled at Vienna, and sought ways to contain not only France (with no united Germany, France remained the largest and most militarily formidable nation west of Russia), but the "revolutionary impulse." England was right in there with the idea of clipping French wings, but had little taste for an effort to suppress the people, despite their plutocratic and oligarchic form of government. Russia, Austria and Prussia formed an anti-revolutionary political alliance which they called, with considerable conceit, the Holy Alliance. Discontent simmered. Writing his history of the French Revolution in the 1830's, Carlisle finished the work by noting that working men in Paris in 1835 still could not afford to buy enough bread to satisfy their hunger, and states that he had seen them taking "sardines" (sprats of some kind) from the river to mix with "weeds" to put on their bread. Socialism was as much a product of the successful repression of movements for popular reform of government as they were any putative revolutionary character of the people at large. In 1848, socialist revolt exploded across Europe, at a time when various crop failures had exacerbated what seemed to many people their common existence on the edge of starvation, and especially because of the failure of the potato beginning in 1846. In Italy and many parts of Germany, men from the aristocracy and the middle class whose sympathies lay with the common people lead successful insurrections which took over cities for a time. The Polish, whose nation had disappeared in three partitions by Prussia, Austria and Russia, rose against their masters, as they had before and would do again. The "Holy Alliance" reacted with a vengeance. Peasant armies, well lead, defeated royal armies for a time, but their successes were limited. The socialist uprisings were crushed, and those alleged to have taken part were treated with appalling brutality--tens of thousands were summarily executed, often on the flimsiest of evidence. Many of these "socialists" came to America--ironically, successful farmers fleeing the crop failures had come as well, and both "conservative" and "liberal" politics in the United States were soon being lead by European immigrants--a great many of the "forty-eighters" fought for Mr. Lincoln in our civil war.

In England, the Peterloo Massacre of 1819 had badly scared and angered the propertied classes, but thoughtful politicians had taken note. In 1832, a reform bill was passed which expanded the electorate (although it was still pitifully small by our standards), and the terms conservative and liberal replaced tory and whig. England was spared the socialist uprising, and in fact opened its doors to many refugees.

In France, at the time of the revolution, the Duke of Orleans had renamed himself "Philippe Égalité" (Phillip Equality) and had supported the revolution, as had his son, Louis-Philippe. When the King was executed, however, Louis-Philippe had left the revolutionary army, and joined the Austrians. He became an exile and wandered the continent, ending up in America, where he resided in Philadelphia for four years, and where his sister married an American. With the fall of Napoleon, he had returned to France, which had a monarchy imposed on it by the Congress of Vienna. Louis-Philippe took the part of the "liberal" citizens, however, which was in keeping with his stand early in the French revolution. Louis XVIII was unpopular with the French, who didn't particularly want a new monarchy. His successor was even more unpopular, as Charles X tried repression to stifle opposition. Louis-Philippe openly lead opposition to Charles, and became more and more popular, until finally, in the July, 1830 revolution, he became "the Citizen King." But in 1847, France was suffering from a bad economy and crop failures like the rest of Europe, and another revolution broke out. Louis-Philippe abdicated in favor of his grandson, and then fled France for England. Although his grandson was initially accepted, a good deal of behind the scenes political skullduggery lead to the proclamation of a second empire, a republican empire. Crucial in all of this was Louis Bonapart, a nephew of Napoleon Bonapart. With the socialist uprisings of 1848, the middle class, who had opposed Louis-Philippe's monarchist regime, became alarmed. Louis Bonapart, carefully scenting "reaction" in the wind (this is the era when the term "reactionary" begins to be applied to extreme conservatism), began to cultivate conservative middle class leaders, and finally, in December, 1851, lead a coup d'etat which established him as the Emperor Napoleon III.

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Never liking or trusting one another, the English and French governments were nevertheless increasingly pushed together by their opposition to the reactionary and repressive conservatism of the Holy Alliance. Palmerston, an arch-conservative, still found it useful to have the French as allies in his many successful diplomatic conferences which helped to keep the general peace in Europe for more than fifty years (roughly 1815 to 1870, if one does not count the socialist uprisings as a war). Napoleon III was a politician and schemer more than an emperor, and he was able not only to goad the Turks into defiance of the Russians in 1853, he was able to convince Austria and Prussia that it was not their quarrel and that they risked another general European War. The English minister at Constantinople hated the French, but he hated the Russians more, and with his influence, the English and French eventually went to war on Turkey's side against the reactionary emperor Nicholas I ("one Tsar, one Church, one Russia"), in what became known as the Crimean War. Napoleon III became convinced of his own military ability (a dangerous trait in most monarchs) and the invincibility of the French Army, and therefore invaded northern Italy in 1859 to oppose the Austrian oppression of Italian nationalists. The French won, but paid a horrible price. Napoleon III was appalled to think that he had supported true revolutionaries, and withdrew, but it was too late for the Austrians, and Cavour and Garibaldi eventually established a constitutional monarchy in Italy. Parts of Europe were moving toward liberalism, while other parts sank deeper into reaction. Austria's humiliation by the French signaled to Bismark both that Austria was weak and could be knocked off its pedestal as abitror of German politics, and that France was a dangerous political and military enemy. Having beaten up the Danes in 1864, Bismark turned to Austria, and the Prussians definitively defeated them in 1866. Bismark had his empire, and France was his next target, in 1870.

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I don't think it necessary to rehearse the stories of the the two world wars. Suffice it to say that the two events lead Europe into a nightmare wilderness of political strife, with revolution and counter-revolution, the rise of fascism, and the rebirth of liberal politics after the defeat of Hitler. The middle class established center-right parties to attempt to enshrine their privilege, and level-headed socialists established center-left parties to appeal to the working class without alarming the middle class too much. Extreme left wing parties languished because of the obvious comparisons to the Warsaw Pact countries' poverty and discontent. Extreme right wing parties languished because of their association in the poplular mind with fascism. Both the far left and the far right have been "rehabilitated" in Europe, and have made great electoral strides, the one trading on the discontent of the working class, the other using communist scare tactics and crypto-racism.

This is a very superficial analysis, and i don't expect it to go unchallenged. The point however, is to discuss the political spectrum, how it came about, what its constituent parts are, and most particularly, the extent to which these differ in North America from the situation in Europe.

I solicit your thoughts. Try not to start any fires which will get out of control.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 09:39 pm
<smooths Sunday dress. Sits like a lady. Clicks white patten shoes>

I think three hominds were in a cave, staring at a turkey leg. The biggest one beat the hell out of the others, ate the tukey leg and became King of the Cave.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 09:43 pm
My way of saying without knowledge re this--but guessing--that dictatorships, charismatic or powerful leaders --likely with some religious/shaman-type "power" likely held sway before other forms of political structures...
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 10:05 pm
I cannot recommend too highly to you Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes. Hobbes is the father of political philosophy in the world of the English speakers. Hobbes believed that all government rests upon either fear of the conqueror or the contract to unite against the conqueror, or to unite in order to conquer. He describes all men as by nature equal, and then considers how society arises--once again either to take, or to defend. He says that in a "state of nature":

. . . it cannot be deny'd but that the naturall state of men, before they entr'd into Society, was a meer [sic] War, and that not simply, but a War of all men, against all men . . .

and further elaborates on the condition in which mankind must have found itself, being in a state of nature, and no society having been formed:

. . . a situation where every man is enemy to every man; . . . in such condition, there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation nor use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving, no removing of such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.

The latter quote: ". . . the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short" is one of the most abused and misrepresented quotations of political philosophy. You'll have that, though, with profound thinkers.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 11:30 pm
I suppose there's no conflict re the history.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 11:32 pm
Very kind of you to say so, Walter . . .

Might you be so good as to give us brief description of the political parties in dear old Allemand?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 11:42 pm
Well, in short and just after having had breakfast:

since parties arose in Germany - which happened around 1848 - we generally have the very same 'system':

communists on very left site, christian parties in the center (re the famous Catholic party "Zentrum" ['Center']), racist nationalists to the extreme right.

Liberals - that are those, who follow "libertarianism" - are situated from left to right (momentarily our Liberals are more on the right).
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 11:49 pm
I understand well why having breakfast so recently is not conducive to a political discussion, and i thank you, Walter.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2005 11:51 pm
Even though I have voted for both democrats and republicans, I am often labeled a democrat or liberal. That's rather funny, because I consider myself a far left liberal when it comes to only one issue; universal health care - especially for our children. I used to be a republican once-upon-a-time when republicanism meant small government, non-intrusion into private lives, and self-sufficiency for those able. I'm not sure how democrats and republicans can keep their political philosophy straight when there is so much cross-breeding going on - especially during the (appx) past two decades. I'm now an independent, and would have voted for John McCain or Bill Bradley in 2000, and didn't care for either Bush or Kerry in 2004.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 02:26 am
C.I., i was raised a conservative Democrat (or at least, raised by conservative Democrats)--and my reaction in the last two elections was exactly the same as yours.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 07:07 am
When we look at conflicts in modern history--(likely, if we'd known public sentiment in ancient history, we might find the same thing)--there are at least two schools of thought re reasons for wars.

Is it as simple as the Realist and the Idealist? The Democrat and the Republican ? The literal and the jaded? The earnest and the cynical?

Korea-- Was it a legitimate counterbalance to the growing global influence of Communism? Or something else? Or those two things? Was it necessary? Was it not?

Vietnam-- Same thing...? Were the Soviets not in the North? Was it US paranoia that made them think THEY had to counterbalance us? Surely we won't boil this down to rubber trees?

I think when you have groups of people who see these and other major watermarks in American history as differently as night and day--you have unreconcilably opposed mindsets, which aggregate to the like-minded, forming --political parties...? Of course, there are some people who don't have strong opinions on these events, and I guess they fall relatively indisciminately among the major schools of thought.

These major groups have a core who find the party after study and legitimate identification with the party's standards and/or stances. Of course, you also have other people who find themselves identifying with a political party, due to social influences, who couldn't tell you why, really, they have become associated with a particular political party.

Or so it seems to me.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 07:34 am
It is not necessarily correct to assume that we know nothing about public opinion in the past. Titus Livius in Ad Urbe Condite (From the Foundation of the City, meaning Rome) details the intrigues, strife and chicanery of the struggle between the orders in Rome over centuries. Thomas Hobbes is equally famous for his translation of The Peloponesian War, by Thucydides, which recounts the wars between the Lacedaemonians (whose capital was Sparta) and the Athenian empire.

Livy (as the English call Titus Livius) would likely not agree with your "two reasons" theory for war. Neither very likely would Polybius have agreed--he was a Roman historian of Greek descent who wrote a history of Rome for the Greeks, and it is extremely useful because it explains many things Romans do not explain in their writing, because they assumed their audience would know.

Thucydides would have very likely agreed with you. But i doubt that any of them would have accepted your dichotomies as you have expressed them. Thucydides assumes that there are two parties--an aristocratic party which dupes and exploits the people, and which would therefore establish a plutocratic oligarchy; and a popular party, spurred on by rabble-rousing demagogues, and which would therefore establish a democratic (or at least ostensibly democratic) tyranny. Thucydides by far examines the dichotomy of the priveleged versus the common, the rich versus the poor more than any ancient writer. Livy was of, or claimed to be of, the Patrician order, but seemed to feel the responsibility of the historian to attempt to be objective, and details the greivances of the Plebs and the many twists and turns of the agrarian and social wars of Rome. Polybius tended to see all Roman wars as wars of policy and hegemony, and of these three, devotes the least time to the examination of ideology.

The middle ages is about the only era in western history for which we do not have reliable accounts of popular feeling about power, party and ideology, and as it was a feudal age, with the Church as a major feudal landlord, one is left to assume that personal, venal lust for wealth and self-aggrandizement was the most common cause of war.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 09:02 am
Well, I think, when reading e.g. Hugh of St. Victor

http://www.st-georgen.uni-frankfurt.de/hugo/Hugobild.JPG

you certainly can get an idea about the popular feeling re power, party and ideology.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 09:07 am
I find all church sources suspect, Walter, forgive me . . .
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 03:08 pm
I don't want to monopolize the course of conversation, but I will bump it up in hopes someone may speak up-- This is very interesting.

Does anyone here subscribe to the rich v poor theory?

I'm reminded of the differences in character and behavior of the Spartans and the Athenians. There are different, equally authentic ways to respond to life.

(PS-- I have read excerpts of Hobbes and from that DO consider myself Hobbesian in general--but I have a week and a half off to relax and I will pick up Leviathan.)
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 09:48 pm
Lash wrote:
Does anyone here subscribe to the rich v poor theory?


You need to elucidate, this is not a theory of political philosphy of which i have ever heard. Do you suggest that political systems arise from the struggle of the rich and the poor? An interesting read for you might be Jean Jacques Rousseau's On the Origins of Inequality.

Quote:
I'm reminded of the differences in character and behavior of the Spartans and the Athenians. There are different, equally authentic ways to respond to life.


The were equally states built upon causual slavery. The Lacedaemonians had institutionalized their fear of slave revolt, and become a military state, a proto-facist state. My disgust with Plato for his praise of them in The Republic knows no bounds. Attica (of which Athens was the principle town) was ostensibly democratic, but that extended only to adult men, living within the city, who were free and native--which qualified less than 20 percent of the Attican population. Athens had inspired, mobilized and lead the people of the Agean islands and the Ionian coast of Asia Minor, but then had imposed an imperial hegemony over them. This is a major theme of Thucydides. The Athenians had for all practical purposes won the war with Sparta, and successfully repressed opposition in their client states, when hubris got the better of them, and they launced an expedition against Sicily, which, although initially successful, eventually resulted in disaster. The Lacedaemonians and the Peloponnesian League rebounded, Athens was definitively defeated, and lost her empire. The Greek states were left so weak that the Persians were able to reconquer the Asian Greek states. Both cities were arrogant and overbearing, and all Greeks paid the price.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 11:11 pm
I referred to this statement of yours relating to the theory I described as rich v poor:

Thucydides assumes that there are two parties--an aristocratic party which dupes and exploits the people, and which would therefore establish a plutocratic oligarchy; and a popular party, spurred on by rabble-rousing demagogues, and which would therefore establish a democratic (or at least ostensibly democratic) tyranny. Thucydides by far examines the dichotomy of the priveleged versus the common, the rich versus the poor more than any ancient writer.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 11:16 pm
Lash wrote:
I referred to this statement of yours relating to the theory I described as rich v poor:

Thucydides assumes that there are two parties--an aristocratic party which dupes and exploits the people, and which would therefore establish a plutocratic oligarchy; and a popular party, spurred on by rabble-rousing demagogues, and which would therefore establish a democratic (or at least ostensibly democratic) tyranny. Thucydides by far examines the dichotomy of the priveleged versus the common, the rich versus the poor more than any ancient writer.


I see . . . Thucydides certainly does take such a line. I recommended Rousseau because his basic postulate (based upon the "noble savage" concept then popular in Europe as a result of romanticized accounts of American aboriginals) is that all mankind begins equal, but that the rise of society entails additional responsibilities for those who lead, upon which they seize additional privilege and perquisite. I find it an oversimplification, however, as i think inequality is institutionalized after naturally arising from the unequal talents and energies of individuals, and the more so in primitive political systsems, in which individual venality and greed are less likely to be restrained.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 11:21 pm
It's too long ago that I read about Thucydides and thus I really can't recall that he used this theory.

Just remember that he was one of the first to write a strictly contemporary history of events
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 11:31 pm
unequal talents...

<thinking>

...and energies... That reminds me again of Craven's assertion that the perennially impoverished countries have climate to partially blame for their failures.

After going for three South Georgia summer months without air conditioning, I think he's on to something.

How do you think (generally) groups evolved with such different talents and energies? Just take a stab at it.

I read a little Rousseau, as well. In Government--we looked at the theories of man's human nature as presented by Locke, Rousseau and Hobbes--related to how their theories were in turn presented in the Continental Congress as fodder for the Constitution. This is how I wound up discovering I was rather pessimistic about man's motives and a Hobbesian...
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