School shooting as "terrorism"?

An interesting article about the terrorism charge.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/michigan-school-shooter-terrorism-charge-unusual_n_61a9047ce4b0ae9a42b9d29b

I'm not so sure the school bears much responsibility, or even that much can change (from an overall perspective):
- it would likely be a breach of privacy to demand every student detail their gun ownership and access to guns
- school counsellors are likely the lowest qualified counsellors available (and perhaps even teachers with a social work degree as well), rather than psychologists
- a lot of the warning signs are difficult to track (ie. either manpower intensive, or very invasive, or both ie. they create resources and privacy issues)
- a lot of the other warning signs happen at home

That's not to say it's impossible to do - just difficult. And in that difficult space, how do you justify a suspension if you don't have enough facts? Particularly if your government works on accountability principles, and demands you account for your decisions or face discrimination or bullying claims & disciplinary actions?

The reward/disciplinary system is the thing that drives culture the most. I consider resources to be part of that system (ie. if you do not have the resources, there is very little motivation to do something). Same goes if you are very likely to get called to account for something that itakes a lot of work to substantiate, you are much less likely to attempt it.

The school personnel are the authority at school. They suspend and expel students all the time. They have the authority over whatever comes onto school grounds and most likely could legally search his person and belongings. We don't even know who, at the school, met with the parents. Principal, Vice-Principal, counsellor... ?

If they had a concern grave enough to call in both parents, this was likely not the first event. But we don't know. However, teachers talk, kids talk. If he didn't suddenly flip, then there were certainly signs and the teachers and students would be the first to know.

As far as warning signs at home - forget about his parents. His mother texted him on how not to get caught. Aiding and abetting him.

It really doesn't matter, vikorr - it's such a hot, massive mess in the States these days with respect to guns, violence, rights and freedoms. I predict they'll never sort it out. If I lived there, I'd move.

Yep, the school personnel are the authority at the school. I don't know any places where I live that actually have the right to search a student (other than through consent). I wouldn't know about such laws in the US.

If the US is anything like Australia, expulsions have to be justified by the school. And parents can contest them.

Not every child with serious head space issues is a shooter. Likely only one in 10,000-50,000 of these types of kids becomes an actual shooter (in the US, as it seems incredibly rare elsewhere). That means, in the vast, vast majority of times, kids with serious headspace issues are just kids with serious headspace issues. Even if through good information and analysis, you got the 'odds' down to 1 in 100...that would still make it a very difficult space to work in.

I'm in Canada so I don't know anything about US schools. And I haven't been to school in years, so I admit I'm not qualified to speak about what goes on today, which may be very different than when I was attending. So... I guess I'll just shut up about it

There's nothing at all wrong with having an opinion about how things should work. You show that you consider things from different angles, and that is all anyone can really ask.

On the face if what little we know, this family was a progunner, 45 worshiping bunch. How is there no degree of politics somewhere here?

Terrorism is very effective if one is the insurgent/guerilla native force that can wait out and not take on the governmental or invading forces head on.

Terrorism is very bad for an invading or occupying force.

Breaking news: Now the parents have been charged and are on the run.

Sounds a bit more political, doesn't it?

I think they were stupid for running, it isn't as if they'll be on the loose for long.

The kid is not a very compelling person, either.

Their lawyers say they're in hiding, lol.

I say, two, maybe three days max.

No doubt about it, the Feds are after them.

My bet is either tomorrow or Sunday they'll be in custody. Huge manhunt

Pretty hard to find much sympathy when you gift a murdering freak a high dollar, serious pistol. Sig Sauer tunes weapons up to "top performance". These things aren't cheap.

Holding political views (and so, so many things can be argued to be political in nature), and killing to further politics, are more often than not two very different things. This would especially be the case with teenagers - the younger, the more so this would be the case.

This is not to say it isn't terrorism - but if so, it's not the terrorism we know.

Merely causing terror does not equal terrorism, or every domestic killing would be terrorism, every knife attack would be terrorism, every gang bashing would be terrorism (and gang warfare is arguably political in nature) etc. Terrorism goes beyong a mere holding of political views, to doing the extremely violent act for the primary purpose of furthering a political agenda

Note: the official definition includes the word 'unlawful', otherwise all their wars would be terrorist acts.

that was fast...

Parents of Michigan school shooter arrested in Detroit after manhunt
(cnn)

I figured they''d get caught after a couple of days. Ignorant jackasses. Now they are in legal trouble.

The ways the laws are written, most of the big charges will be dropped. If gun companies aren't going to be held as contributory, nailing parents will be tough.

So why do we have laws against making terroristic threats? Why do we have terrorism as a enhancer in assault crimes?

If the intent is to create terror, it's terroristic.

The big problem is that the image of a terrorist is someone from another race, country, religion and/or culture. They can be kids from white GOP christian families, and American born of Americans, too.

I think the parents are in big trouble. They don't have the resources of the gun lobby and they are facing an angry community.

Back in the 1970s they were white, and Irish.