@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:Bin Laden was not from Afghanistan and was from Saudi Arabia.
He was
in Afghanistan. And he launched the 9/11 attacks from Afghanistan.
edgarblythe wrote:The reasons for attacking Afghanistan are not much stronger than the "reasons" for attacking Iraq.
We have every right to defend ourselves when we are brutally attacked.
edgarblythe wrote:I told my gung ho brothers, "They are never going tp pacify that part of the world." Also told them, "You are not going to be happy with the way it ends."
If we can eliminate the influence of progressive traitors, we will be able to easily pacify bad guys around the world as we please.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:At the core of Izzy's opinion is a defense of Colonialism.
I think you've confused our posts. I'm the one who is defending colonialism.
maxdancona wrote:This is another example of White people civilizing the indigenous people of the world.
Good for us.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:How is this not Colonialism?
It is not colonialism because it is self defense.
maxdancona wrote:You see the Taliban (which has broad support among the Afghan people) as uncivilized.
Hardly broad support.
maxdancona wrote:We have tried to use the military to put in an unpopular government that supports Western (i.e. White) values.
You associate democracy and human rights with whiteness?
That's racist.
maxdancona wrote:Britain did this in India China and The Middle East and Kenya etc. etc. Britain saw itself as bringing "civilization" to indigenous peoples.
Britain was right.
maxdancona wrote:What we were doing in Afghanistan is the same thing (or can you explain the difference).
The difference is that we were defending ourselves.
maxdancona wrote:If the plan is to keep killing Afghanis and bombing homes until they start treating women correctly (according to Western values).... it is lunacy.
We weren't killing and bombing. We were training the Afghanis to defend themselves.
And they were already treating women correctly. The bad behavior towards women is only going to begin now that the Taliban are back in power.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:I am going to stop the silly sniping... and try to ask the important question?
What should we have done differently in Afghanistan that would have changed this outcome?
We should have kept training and supporting the Afghan people like we've been doing for years now.
maxdancona wrote:Everyone with any sense knew that the Taliban would eventually win because the Taliban had too much popular support in Afghanistan for any other outcome.
Sorry Max, but in this thread you are not speaking for anyone with sense.
The Taliban won for one reason only: because Traitor Joe abandoned the Afghan people.
maxdancona wrote:I think the alternative plan was to keep killing people and destroying houses with drone strikes and a general military occupation until the Taliban promised to treat women better.
You are wrong. The alternative was to keep training and supporting the Afghan people so they could keep defending themselves.
maxdancona wrote:Killing and destroying to save women doesn't make sense on any planet.
Training the Afghan people to protect themselves is not killing and destroying.
maxdancona wrote:I am not very smart, so someone explain to me in common simple English so maybe I can get it. How do you force the Afghan people to accept the "civilization" that they don't want?
They did want it. They are quite upset that Traitor Joe has sold them out.
This is the Democrats' betrayal of South Vietnam all over again.
@engineer,
engineer wrote:The model intervention was Kuwait. We went in with a very specific mission (force the Iraqi withdrawal from Kuwait), we completed that mission, then we went home. Honestly if we had completely gone home instead of trying to keep a military presence in Saudi Arabia it would been a complete success. Instead that military presence was the seed for 9-11.
Had we not left our forces in Saudi Arabia, Saddam would have invaded Kuwait again (and then Saudi Arabia too).
That's why after 9/11 we needed to topple Saddam before we could pull our troops out of Saudi Arabia.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:This was an outcome that the Afghans wanted.
So why are they clawing onto the sides of our airplanes as they take off?
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:It would be hard to pick a justifiable war from among our many.
Not hard at all. All of our wars have been justified.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:This is important because America (and its British ally) still have a colonial attitude. Just like the British, we still believe that White people need to save the indigenous Afghan people from themselves.
Civilized nations have every right to force inferior cultures to adopt civilized norms.
Skin color has nothing to do with it.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:Canada had "Indian Schools" that were promoted as a way to protect indigenous girls and women. So did Australia. People in both of these countries are apologizing for this practice and now recognize these schooks as barbaric.
And yet, here we are again promoting these schools in Afghanistan.
Shame on you. The schools in Afghanistan are nothing even remotely like the genocidal schools that we imposed on the Native Americans.
maxdancona wrote:Our attempt to save indigenous women from their own culture never end well.
Are you going to help the Taliban splash acid in the faces of six year old girls to punish them for learning to read?
@oralloy,
Quote: Shame on you. The schools in Afghanistan are nothing even remotely like the genocidal schools that we imposed on the Native Americans
Genocide? REALLY??, The wor cgenocide was used a bit as was "ethnocide" , but actual genocide???
@farmerman,
What we did to the Native Americans was appalling and unforgivable.
And yes, I think that what we did to them counted as "an attempt to extinguish a race or culture".
So much concern for Afghani schoolgirls, absolutely none for American schoolchildren butchered by the NRA.
@izzythepush,
That's because the NRA does no such thing.
Nonce rifle association, making sure nonces get rifles and children get the bullet.
@izzythepush,
European hatred for free people is curious.
You guys always claim that you don't want freedom. Yet you guys are always so bitter at those of us who do enjoy freedom.
One would think that you guys would be happy that you have the lack of freedom that you claim you want.
@oralloy,
They never say they want less freedom, they just want deluded people in other countries to stay away from them. We have a similar problem in the United States, there are many beggar states living off the tax money generated by the rest of us. Sadly the beggars states are furious and resents the stable states for
supporting the beggars.
@glitterbag,
Free people protect their children from spineless cowards who need guns.
Oralloy uses Freedom the same way the Third Reich constantly used it, shouting loudly while doing the exact opposite.
The Third Reich also had unthinking drones like Oralloy parotting his master’s voice.
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:They never say they want less freedom,
Yes they do.
glitterbag wrote:they just want deluded people in other countries to stay away from them.
Well, you are the only deluded person here.
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:Free people protect their children from spineless cowards who need guns.
You're speaking like a serf. Which stands to reason, but my point is you don't understand what freedom even is.
The term "need" is serf-speak. "Need" is not relevant with free people. We don't have guns because of any "need".
Instead of "needs", what free people have are "choices". Free people have guns, or not, because that is what we "choose" to do.
izzythepush wrote:Oralloy uses Freedom the same way the Third Reich constantly used it, shouting loudly while doing the exact opposite.
The Third Reich also had unthinking drones like Oralloy parotting his master’s voice.
Godwin's Law.
I win again!
At 71, Vietnam (and Cambodia) soured me on the supposed ethics of USA interventions. I simply cannot tell a Vietnam veteran "thank you for your service". Instead, I ask him to be satisfied that, at least, I am telling the truth. I do not blame him; I consider him to be a pawn.
Afghanistan, the same. The major problem with USA culture is that we honestly think that our decisions are the best, worldwide, and others "need to heed" our prerequisites for just what constitutes proper way of living . No one else should compete with our worldview, or sense of propriety, because we are the very best because we are God-blessed. And don't you forget that.
That is our major fault. From the beginning, we expected Afghanistan's people to learn to lust after shopping malls and trendy fashions. That was clearly not the case and we failed miserably in our facile attempt "to understand" their (inferior?) culture. They put up with us because they HAD to put up with us. But when we waned, they gained. Instead, from the start, we should have recognized (yes, I said it) the legitimacy of the Taliban, just like we should have recognized the legitimacy of the Viet Cong and the Cuban Revolution. Yes, I said that and offer no regrets to this sane truth. We had no problem supporting Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge in its slaughter of its own people.
When will we learn? Perhaps not until we are forced to learn. Our unwavering support for the State of Israel is an ignominious factor preventing honest brokerage in the Mid-East. Our unwavering support of Saudi Arabia is much of the same. We just don't "get it" because we are too busy looking askance at other cultures which have a history of rational thinking. Instead, we are unwisely focused solely upon our sordid list of political detritus which we mistake as whole, stable, and real. Not everyone wants to live Hollywood.
I happen to love humanity ... but not only the American kind. We Americans are not so very special and parents who teach their children of "American Exceptionalism" are being exceptionally remiss in their duties. - David Lyga
