Weary of the Brutishness of the Modern Mind

Mesquite,

"I meant the:

Quote:

A refusal to that is the lack of objectivity by Momma Angel that I was referring to. I can certainly understand the reason for the refusal and she has every right to do so, as I have every right to comment on it."

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Momma Angel wrote:

Mesquite,

"I meant the:

Quote:
A refusal to that is the lack of objectivity by Momma Angel that I was referring to. I can certainly understand the reason for the refusal and she has every right to do so, as I have every right to comment on it."

First let's get the full context.

mesquite wrote:

When discussing the character of the God of the Bible, I think it is important to examine how this God is portrayed in first person accounts in the Bible.

A refusal to do that is the lack of objectivity by Momma Angel that I was referring to. I can certainly understand the reason for the refusal and she has every right to do so, as I have every right to comment on it.

Which goes towards this and several other similar statements by you.

Quote:

Well, let me put it to you this way. To me, I am finished with that. I got the help I needed in answering the question. Frank still disagrees, but, that's the way it is.

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Mesquite,

Thank you. Now I understand. Just got out of the loop and missed something there.

I appreciate you clearing it up for me.

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mesquite wrote:

When discussing the character of the God of the Bible, I think it is important to examine how this God is portrayed in first person accounts in the Bible.

A refusal to do that is the lack of objectivity by Momma Angel that I was referring to. I can certainly understand the reason for the refusal and she has every right to do so, as I have every right to comment on it.

How are you considered objective when you take a position and defend it but she is not objective when she takes a position and defends it?

I know I am not objective on this question. I have a very definite view and I will defend it. So do you have a view which you defend.

How are you more objective than Momma simply because you take the opposite view?

My point is that we all should admit our lack of objectivity when we have taken a position on a particular question. I freely admit I am not neutral. Why can you not admit it?

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Why does having an opinion close an otherwise open mind? Might it lead one to miss an important turn in the road.

Solomon wrote:

But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established (Proverbs 4:18)

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Real Life, Neologist,

Thank you, My Mentors.

I was kind of wondering why, myself, when one forms an opinion and decides their position and argues that position, they are accused of being close minded? If you believe in something you should stand up for it. Any belief wouldn't be worth it's salt if it wasn't worthy of championing.

And, if close-minded were the worse thing I was being called in here, I'd definitely accept that.

But I am with Real Life on why we are not objective and they are. We are close-minded for championing our faith, they are open-minded because they don't share our faith? Doesn't really make sense to me either, but I guess that's what we have to work with.

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Momma Angel wrote:

But I am with Real Life on why we are not objective and they are. We are close-minded for championing our faith, they are open-minded because they don't share our faith? Doesn't really make sense to me either, but I guess that's what we have to work with.

Good grief Momma Angel, how soon you forget. Just a couple of posts previous on this same page you said.

Momma Angel wrote:

Mesquite,

Thank you. Now I understand. Just got out of the loop and missed something there.

I appreciate you clearing it up for me.

By definition, you position is not objective.

Objective: Based on observable phenomena; presented factually.

Faith: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

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Mesquite,

I got mixed up earlier about something and it was explained. I get that.

I don't know where you got your definition of faith but this is what I got:

1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs

Excuse me, but I do not see the word logical in there at all.

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Momma click here.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=faith

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Momma, Your use of the word fits the definition I supplied.

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Mesquite,

So, now you want to argue which dictionary is correct? Look, it's logical to me. It's not logical to you. I believe. You don't. I'm a Christian. You're not. We can go on forever with this kind of thing.

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mesquite wrote:

Objective:Based on observable phenomena; presented factually.

Faith: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

Good try: Your definition is one for credulity. Unfortunately, many theologians would agree with you. It works to their advantage to use the 'God works in mysterious ways' scam.

True faith is also objective. The idea that logic and reason must be abandoned in order to believe is pure hogwash.

Edited after reviewing previous posts.

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Neo,

I have never really bought into that mysterious ways way of thinking either. I think God makes it very clear His ways.

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Momma Angel wrote:

I think God makes it very clear His ways.

Me too, I knew we could find some common ground sooner or later. Have you read Mark Twains Little Bessie[/u] yet? You said you were going to , but I don't recall seeing any comments about it.

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mesquite wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
I think God makes it very clear His ways.

Me too, I knew we could find some common ground sooner or later. Have you read Mark Twains Little Bessie[/u] yet? You said you were going to , but I don't recall seeing any comments about it.

Little Bessie's Mama is the perfect example of the straw man. She spouts a misrepresentation of the bible which appeals to people's emotion. It's easy to attack the straw man, isn't it?

Works real well when you can't attack the truth.

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Mesquite,

I am thrilled we have reached some common ground! Would you believe it? Even with Frank we have found some common ground. He is a cat person! I told him there's hope for him yet! Laughing

I am sorry I haven't gotten past the first chapter yet. I can make a comment on that though. I do not believe that God does causes all the bad things that happen in this world. Do I think there are times He allows things to happen in order to teach a lesson? Yes, I do. But I do not believe He causes all the ills of the world to punish someone. If you will remember in the Book of Job, God did not cause the problems for Job, God allowed Satan to cause the problems. I will withhold any other comments until I read the rest. But, I do love Mark Twain! I am trying to get all caught up here at home and the cat shelter. I am going to SC to visit my twin sister this week. I haven't had much time for anything. I have been keeping up with the posts while taking breaks!

If I could just get these cats to learn to clean!

(And yes Frank, there are two of us! The only difference is Chrissy would be a bit more apt to bite back, so to speak! Very Happy

)

Neo,

I now have a very, very clear picture of that straw man. Thank You!

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