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Sun 10 Jan, 2021 08:46 pm
Nowadays, it seems everyone is entitled to their own philosophy. To each, their own, as it is said. But from what I read, there was clearly a time when Philosophy was decidedly about Reality, what does it mean to be considered “Real”?
Much of our materialist mindsets leave no room for any other worldview, and therefore, by predication, determines how we will Experience the world. But this to me does not make our Experience preexisting, no. Just shows our arrogance in thinking we know anything at all.
The search for Reality, is truly none other than the search for Truth. So I have to ask, are we so sure that we cannot Experience Lies, that we have been in fact lying to ourselves?
I ask this based on a Scripture not many seem to look at, but yet even Psychology verifies is true:
“As you have believed, so be it done unto you”, as per Matthew 8:13 .
There is not a single one who could question the validity of that statement. So take it to the next level:
“We see through a glass darkly”. — 1Cor. 13:12
So to clean the Glass, would be to clean up Agreements we hold. I mean, it is our beliefs, therefore our agreements, that twist and distort what we perceive at any moment, so it does seem to clean up some rather amazing questions in a very certain type of literature of the so-called Dark Ages.
Consider the claim that “a house divided cannot stand”. When we put this into action, the very science that claims to know so much in this day and age, is nothing more than the two serpents devouring the others tail.
The idea here is that after these two have fought one hell of a fight, they have killed each other, and what comes from this merger off complete opposites is the Phoenix. Part reptile, part bird, and stronger than ever.
But, it needs to grow....
So it needs to keep dying....
Forming ONE Serpent, devouring its own tail, until....
Stasis.
Is-ness.
Eternal.
I think I’ve said enough, without exposing the Secret of the Philosophers, but hopefully enough to encourage the Seeker.
@NoName77,
You seem to be confusing religion with philosophy.
They are two very different things.
@maxdancona,
They are two separate things yes but they are totally embroiled together with all the other sciences with SELF in there somewhere...There are spectators and then there are players. One needs to get involved in the game.
@NoName77,
1.……...“We see through a glass darkly”. — 1Cor. 13:12...…
2.…….The search for Reality, is truly none other than the search for Truth. So I have to ask, are we so sure that we cannot Experience Lies, that we have been in fact lying to ourselves?...…..
With regard to your above tw0 statements....my view is that you pick up on good and relevant points. Can I ask (if you were an internal observer)......just say awareness/consciousness were around prior to the first supposed "big bang"???? then what does one see...... is it just darkness and why would one think that? if awareness/consciousness (effectively light) completely fills that darkness. Also ,with regard to the glass description.... how else would one want to describe something that is completely full of both darkness and light?
Also,
If the quest is to search for truth why would you think that there are no lies?
This thread is comparing the now (i.e. the year 2021) with some time in the past when things were different.
Let's make the comparison. Choose a year in the past and lets set..
1) How people were following the Bible?
2) How people considered Science and Truth.
Choose a specific year please... shall we pick 1821?
@maxdancona,
Why not 1858 when Drawin threw one big spanner in the works. Prior to that people viewed things differently. Some would say "fruit cake" differently...…..however the chapter from Corinthians is far too descriptive for that conclusion. Also, other chapters found in the bible are also far too definite and descriptive. Ignore them at ones peril I would say.
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:
Why not 1858 when Drawin threw one big spanner in the works. Prior to that people viewed things differently. Some would say "fruit cake" differently...…..however the chapter from Corinthians is far too descriptive for that conclusion. Also, other chapters found in the bible are also far too definite and descriptive. Ignore them at ones peril I would say.
Ok good.
In 1858 (in the US)
- People owned other human beings as slaves. And people were being killed for trying to win their freedom.
- Doctors didn't know enough to wash their hands before doing surgery.
- The life expectancy for White males in the US (the highest group) was under 40 years.
I would say life has improved since these more "philosophical" times.
@NoName77,
On the contrary there was never so much Philosophy done on every department of Science or elsewhere as there is nowadays.
Back then it didn't meant more but more simple. Today the scope is greater but more complex.
Philosophy is far from dead as the very ones that make such claims dwell in philosophical debates morning to dusk without being aware they are doing it. The irony is quite entertaining.
As for the trade-offs of modern life with the old times I see change not progress and what improves in some points necessarily is a trade off for things that we use to have or be able to do that we don't any more.
The idea of actual progress done by humanity it is all to much an ironic myth as we close to the brink of our own self destruction as dealing with complexity proves to big of a job for the dumb monkey we all are.
@NoName77,
Quote:I ask this based on a Scripture not many seem to look at, but yet even Psychology verifies is true:
“As you have believed, so be it done unto you”, as per Matthew 8:13 .
There is not a single one who could question the validity of that statement. So take it to the next level:
Whoa! Hold on there. What do you mean 'no one could question' its validity. I wouldn’t, but Most people on this forum would call it New Age Hokum.
@Jasper10,
Before the “bang”, I do not see the existence of “opposites”. So in a sense, yes, Light would fill the supposed darkness. Until, something opposed the Light. Thus free will being twisted and used to cage what was designed to be free. To me, the dissolution of the darkness in the realm of mind/soul is absolutely necessary, but to do this requires assistance, and no t all who are so eager to “help” are on the same side.... But wait, we just dissolved all evil, so how can what is “allowed” be misconstrued as evil and dark? There is no such thing. Just the Experience of Belief, IMO
@Jasper10,
Before the “bang”, I do not see the existence of “opposites”. So in a sense, yes, Light would fill the supposed darkness. Until, something opposed the Light. Thus free will being twisted and used to cage what was designed to be free. To me, the dissolution of the darkness in the realm of mind/soul is absolutely necessary, but to do this requires assistance, and no t all who are so eager to “help” are on the same side.... But wait, we just dissolved all evil, so how can what is “allowed” be misconstrued as evil and dark? There is no such thing. Just the Experience of Belief, IMO
@Leadfoot,
To classify the qualities of Truth, being that which is, was and always will be, as new age hokum, is to say that all sensory data in a priori. But either the sensory data is processing what is already there, or it is filtering what is actually there, based on criteria held dear to the interpreter. Regardless anyone’s opinion, without Mind, there is no experience. This is far from hokum. Take the very first chapter of Genesis and break it down once. The is-ness of Truth gets pushed aside due to whatever we experience, then we dare to call this a “scientific method”? All we have done is confined ourselves to experience the same things, and each time with more momentum. About as arrogantly forceful as it gets, IMO of course.
@NoName77,
It is interesting that you state that assistance is required.You are picking up on a very good point.
@NoName77,
Quote:The is-ness of Truth gets pushed aside due to whatever we experience, then we dare to call this a “scientific method”? All we have done is confined ourselves to experience the same things, and each time with more momentum. About as arrogantly forceful as it gets, IMO of course.
They'd just turn that around and tell you that claiming to be a 'spiritual being' was far more arrogant than admitting you are just an evolved ape.
But, As you said, “As you have believed, so be it done unto you”, as per Matthew 8:13”
But still, there are those who would disagree.
@maxdancona,
How does one interpret the words, “eternal” and “Truth”? Are they not “is, was and always will be”? Are they not different from factual sensory data? Is not Time a construct of Mind? Nowhere in Nature is Time seen. Merely Experienced. So to me, Time is a construct of Mind.
@maxdancona,
Sir, so u have an Idea of what Time actually is? In ancient times, they called Time a god, Chronos, etc. since we are now discussing both Time and Matter, we should bring up the Buddha who defied both by instantaneously crossing the Ganges River in front of at least hundreds. Documented. So if both Time and Space, and Matter for that matter, are all so set and determined, are we to say that hundreds of people, government as well, were hallucinating? I could go as far as asking about the rabbit in the hat, but most seem satisfied with basic trickery to satisfy their questions.
@maxdancona,
I would say Philosophy is determined to better the lives of people, yes, but as Boethius came to understand, we do not always understand her. Call her Philosophy, Wisdom, Truth, God (if ur daring), it is clear that what appears as evil was meant for good, else the entire system would have collapsed by now. Remove that Life from it tho, and surely, the end is at hand.
@NoName77,
NoName77 wrote:
I would say Philosophy is determined to better the lives of people, yes, but as Boethius came to understand, we do not always understand her.
One can only 'not understand' in a way which one understands ... that is simple logic. As in if you do not understand something then that perception is based entirely in what you think you know.
It is just another glaring example on this thread of complete unmitigated verbiage.
As for your opening gambit which started this thread ..... History is a highly selective pastiche of a very few facts and almost endless substantial lies. So what you think you know is simply what somebody else thought, entirely directed by the acceptable thoughts of the time and their own social ethos. For every philosophers name that you know, there is no doubt ten or more that you do not.
Philosophy has no singular guiding light, no purposeful direction of travel ... it never has and never will.
@NoName77,
The assistance thing is very interesting in my opinion....My understanding is that man’s reasoning can be that good is bad and bad is good therefore there is no such thing as morals or rules and he therefore concludes that God doesn’t exist.Now we know that man can’t prove this...he can only hope that it is true.Therefore it must be reasonable to assume the opposite might be true.Again, one can only hope that it is true.If it is true then what are the rules? Well we know that the God of the bibles rules are the Ten Commandments.Whatever the rules are one would have keep them perfectly to meet God’s standards in my opinion.What happens if one doesn’t keep them perfectly? What then? Interesting.....
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