Reply
Tue 12 Jul, 2005 10:18 pm
When i was a child, at the height of the "red scare," we were taught at school, had drummed into our heads, that America is the great land of freedom and democracy. We were taught to cherish and revere our freedoms and rights, especially freedom of speech. We were taught that a just and democratic government honors and protects our freedoms--freedom of speech, freedom to assemble and petition for a redress of grievances; to be secure in our persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable search and seizure; that no warrants shall be issued except upon probably cause supported by oath or affirmation; that no one shall be charged with a capital or infamous crime without indictment of a grand jury; that no one may be held without right of habeas corpus; that no one can be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law; that no private property shall be taken for public use without just compensation. We were taught that it was our right--nay, our sacred duty--to protest the unjust or immoral actions of government.
Yet it appears that this is not so. Our conservative fellow citizens tell us that there must be no criticism of the President (this one, at least), that it is unpatriotic to criticize the war, that we are traitors to our soldiers, sailors and Marines if we do so, that the government may hold whom they please, how they please, for as long as they please. We are told to object is unpatriotic, that we must love it and sit down and shut up.
You might well imagine my confusion. Why does the Right hate America and its freedoms?
Re: MALICE AFORETHOUGHT
Setanta wrote:When i was a child, at the height of the "red scare," we were taught at school, had drummed into our heads, that America is the great land of freedom and democracy. We were taught to cherish and revere our freedoms and rights, especially freedom of speech. We were taught that a just and democratic government honors and protects our freedoms--freedom of speech, freedom to assemble and petition for a redress of grievances; to be secure in our persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable search and seizure; that no warrants shall be issued except upon probably cause supported by oath or affirmation; that no one shall be charged with a capital or infamous crime without indictment of a grand jury; that no one may be held without right of habeas corpus; that no one can be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law; that no private property shall be taken for public use without just compensation. We were taught that it was our right--nay, our sacred duty--to protest the unjust or immoral actions of government.
Yet it appears that this is not so. Our conservative fellow citizens tell us that there must be no criticism of the President (this one, at least), that it is unpatriotic to criticize the war, that we are traitors to our soldiers, sailors and Marines if we do so, that the government may hold whom they please, how they please, for as long as they please. We are told to object is unpatriotic, that we must love it and sit down and shut up.
You might well imagine my confusion. Why does the Right hate America and its freedoms?
Please provide proof of the above mentioned malice in your diatribe. I would like to have news stories of Americans homes being taken and people being arrested for speaking out. Also provide proof of Americans homes being invaded and searched and the people being hauled away without due course?
Your demands have no authority. If you don't like the decor, find somewhere else to hang out.
Baldimo
You can tell by the tone of his first trolling post that he didn't want a discussion.........he wants a dog fight. Best ignore him.
You have the freedom to make any diatribe you want. You have the freedom to call the president any name you want. I have the freedom to tell you to shut up and sit down.
Until someone comes to your house and takes your computer away from you, you have no real leg to stand on here. You are decrying the loss of a freedom by using the very freedom you mourn.
When was the first time ANYONE in this administration stated that we can not criticize the President and the policies of this Govt??? I hear the Democrats do it every day and no one has "arrested" them.
I think you are hyperventalating and listening to too much of Hannities and Frankens.
Re: MALICE AFORETHOUGHT
Baldimo wrote: Also provide proof of Americans homes being invaded and searched and the people being hauled away without due course?
Brandon Mayfield comes to mind.
Re: MALICE AFORETHOUGHT
Baldimo wrote:
I would like to have news stories of Americans homes being taken and people being arrested for speaking out. Also provide proof of Americans homes being invaded and searched and the people being hauled away without due course?
Plame?
What was the point of her name being released other than to strike at a Bush administration critic and intimidate others?
Re: MALICE AFORETHOUGHT
boomerang wrote:Baldimo wrote: Also provide proof of Americans homes being invaded and searched and the people being hauled away without due course?
Brandon Mayfield comes to mind.
This so-called botched arrest had merit in this difficult period of time.
"The affidavit that helped secure his arrest made much of the fact that he had converted to Islam, is married to an Egyptian-born woman and had once briefly represented a member of the "Portland Seven" in a child-custody case."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5092810/site/newsweek/
Re: MALICE AFORETHOUGHT
Setanta wrote:...Yet it appears that this is not so. Our conservative fellow citizens tell us that there must be no criticism of the President (this one, at least), that it is unpatriotic to criticize the war, that we are traitors to our soldiers, sailors and Marines if we do so...
I doubt that they do. I doubt that many if any members of this site have said that any criticism whatever of the President or the war is unpatriotic etc. One or two historical posts containing this would be appropriate.
In my own case, I have only said that individuals who have a huge volume of posts criticising numerous aspects of America without any post ever supporting anything connected with America are not patriotic. That is a far cry from saying that any criticism is unacceptable.
A more through and interesting analysis of the case can be read here:
http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/0/9090373de4fa9c7d85256f3300551e42?OpenDocument
It all heads to trial this week and should be interesting to watch.
Paid big bucks for a ring side seat just to see how many rounds this will go.
Synonymph wrote:Patriotism is overrated.
In a poll, it was found that 5 out of 6 conservative pinheads strongly disagree with you.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."
That's great. This isn't 1946 anymore. Times have changed.
Re: MALICE AFORETHOUGHT
woiyo wrote:boomerang wrote:Baldimo wrote: Also provide proof of Americans homes being invaded and searched and the people being hauled away without due course?
Brandon Mayfield comes to mind.
This so-called botched arrest had merit in this difficult period of time.
"The affidavit that helped secure his arrest made much of the fact that he had converted to Islam, is married to an Egyptian-born woman and had once briefly represented a member of the "Portland Seven" in a child-custody case."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5092810/site/newsweek/
I looked and looked but couldn't find the merit you speak of. I hope the part you quoted was not intended to demonstrate such merit.
The very next part of the article:
Quote:But Spanish authorities insist that they always doubted the Mayfield connection. "At no time did we give our approval," a Spanish police official told NEWSWEEK. "We kept working on the identification ... Obviously we wouldn't have kept working on it if we were already 100 percent convinced."
The fact that he hadn't traveled abroad in over a decade should have been enough to cast doubt that it could be his print. The fact that the analysts noted the poor quality of the print should have also cast doubt. But if they were certain that it was his, why arrest him as a material witness? Why not just charge him? If that's all it takes to arrest and hold someone in this country without charges, we have a problem.