What's the point of speaking of evolution as having purpose?

Re: What's the point of speaking of evolution as having purp

Brandon9000 wrote:

John Creasy wrote:
rosborne979 wrote:
John Creasy wrote:
The fact is, the conditions of this planet are so fragile that if you changed one aspect (oxygen, distance to the sun, etc.) life would be impossible.

No. Only *our* form of life might be impossible, but other forms of life would have evolved to fit the new conditions you propose. And if those forms of life happened to evolve intelligence, they would be asking the exact same questions we are asking, and they would be saying "our conditions are perfect for life, any change would make us impossible".

And that brings us fill circle to where we are now.

Arguments of probability and arguments of condition perfection are non-sequitir.

Can you prove that a single celled orgainism is my ancestor?

It cannot be proven 100% any more than the theory of atoms can, but there is more than enough evidence of it for a reasonable, objective person to understand that it's true. One can see the mechanism of evolution in action in the world, as when bacteria develop immunity to medicines. One can piece together the fossil evidence of the origin of species and see their sequential development. Of course, there is no convincing people who just don't wish to believe something.

John Creasy wrote:
Why didn't all single celled organisms evolve? How did the first organism just magically come to life from nothing?

The fact that certain individual single celled organisms have useful mutations, and beget lines of more sophisticated creatures, in no way causes other single celled organisms to do so.

There is enough evidence to prove that I am a direct descendant of a single celled organism?? What is this evidence? You didn't answer my question about how life started.

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John Jones, Wrong; we can only exist because of our environment. That's the reason why there are no life forms on other planets. The environment controls life, not the other way around.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

John Jones, Wrong; we can only exist because of our environment. That's the reason why there are no life forms on other planets. The environment controls life, not the other way around.

What distinguishes our environment from the slugs environment? I will tell you. It is being human and being a slug that define environments. How else can you define environment?

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You are being obtuse.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

You are being obtuse.

You cannot define an environment without saying what creature you are referring to.
Therefore, the creature defines its environment. So we cannot say that 'a creature becomes adapted to its environment.'

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JJ, You're a christian, right?

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Re: What's the point of speaking of evolution as having purp

John Creasy wrote:

Can you prove that a single celled orgainism is my ancestor?

The logical inference from evolution is that single celled organisms are our ancestors. Does that bother you?

John Creasy wrote:

Why didn't all single celled organisms evolve?

I'm not sure what you mean. Almost every population changes over time (change of allele frequency in the gene pool over time, is the basic definition of evolution), but not every line leads to something which survives. Extinction is the norm, not the exception. A tree grows many small branches, but not all of them live long enough to become mighty limbs. Only a few survive, and then smaller branches grow from them and the process happens again. Evolution is similar.

John Creasy wrote:

How did the first organism just magically come to life from nothing?

We don't know. We have theories, but no single theory on origins has gained preeminence over the other theories (unlike the Theory of Evolution which is not only the dominant theory, but the *ONLY* scientific theory which explains everything we see in such detail).

Just to be clear, the Theory of Evolution does not include an explanation for the origin of life, it only describes how life has evolved, not how it originated.

However, evolution does have implications on the origin of life simply because the process of evolution is so powerful that we can easily see how it could have effected life all the way back to just after replicative mollecules occured. *How* those first replicative molecules first occured however, is not well known.

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JJ, Read "The Origin of Species."

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Re: What's the point of speaking of evolution as having purp
The logical inference from evolution is that single celled organisms are our ancestors. Does that bother you?

A little bit, it's also hard for me to believe.

We don't know. We have theories, but no single theory on origins has gained preeminence over the other theories (unlike the Theory of Evolution which is not only the dominant theory, but the *ONLY* scientific theory which explains everything we see in such detail).

Just to be clear, the Theory of Evolution does not include an explanation for the origin of life, it only describes how life has evolved, not how it originated.

However, evolution does have implications on the origin of life simply because the process of evolution is so powerful that we can easily see how it could have effected life all the way back to just after replicative mollecules occured. *How* those first replicative molecules first occured however, is not well known.[/quote]
So would you admit that it is POSSIBLE that some kind of force had a role in the origin of life?

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John Jones wrote:

You cannot define an environment without saying what creature you are referring to.

The term "environment" can be used as a general description of surroundings and conditions, where the thing the environment surrounds is an arbitrary focal point.

en·vi·ron·ment P Pronunciation Key (n-vrn-mnt, -vrn-) - n.
1. The circumstances or conditions that surround one; surroundings.

For example, the Ocean is an environment, and the desert is an environment. The surfact of Mars is also an environment, and so is Outer Space, even though nothing lives there (that we know of).

But the *point* of all this was that the environment we live in today is not *perfect* for us just by chance. It's perfect for us because we evolved to fill it.

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Re: What's the point of speaking of evolution as having purp

John Creasy wrote:

So would you admit that it is POSSIBLE that some kind of force had a role in the origin of life?

Of course. There's no evidence for it, but anything's possible. It's possible that the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale too, would you like to buy it?

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You can be a smartass all you want, that doesn't help your argument.

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Re: What's the point of speaking of evolution as having purp

John Creasy wrote:

Rosborne979 wrote:
The logical inference from evolution is that single celled organisms are our ancestors. Does that bother you?

A little bit, it's also hard for me to believe.

Fair enough. But I have to tell you, the evidence for it is extremely solid.

We lack detail in our understanding of the process, but the basic system is profoundly elegant, and permeates everything around us, both organic and inorganic.

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John Creasy wrote:

You can be a smartass all you want, that doesn't help your argument.

Lighten up Dude. If you're gonna make a big fuss about the fact that "anything's possible", then I'm going to make sure you keep it in perspective.

If you're gonna try to sell me on an idea that's improbably crazy, then I'm gonna try to sell you a bridge. If you feel offended by me trying to sell you something stupid, then you'll know how I feel when you try to sell me something equally silly. Make sense?

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rosborne979 wrote:

John Creasy wrote:
You can be a smartass all you want, that doesn't help your argument.

Lighten up Dude. If you're gonna make a big fuss about the fact that "anything's possible", then I'm going to make sure you keep it in perspective.

If you're gonna try to sell me on an idea that's improbably crazy, then I'm gonna try to sell you a bridge. If you feel offended by me trying to sell you something stupid, then you'll know how I feel when you try to sell me something equally silly. Make sense?

No because I'm not trying to sell you anything. I think it's funny that evolutionists like yourself like to call people like me close-minded when in fact you are the one that seems a little stubborn. If you think the idea of an unseen force being the origin of life is "improbably crazy", then you prove my point. I didn't belittle your beliefs, I simply said they are hard for me to believe. Honestly, I wouldn't rule anything out and I only suggest that you don't either.

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PS-If you want to keep things in perspective, please remember that we are mere human beings and an insignificant speck in the universe. Just remember that when you think that your human logic can explain everything.

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Human logic doesn't explain everything. How did you come to that conclusion?

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If you have to ask that question then I can't help you CI.

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"Just remember that when you think that your human logic can explain everything."

You're the one that brought it up. Nobody claimed it can. Your statement is just a waste of verbage that doesn't say anything.

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I just challenged you on it, because it's another stupid statement.

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What's the point of speaking of evolution as having purpose?

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