The Anti-Muslim predjudice on A2K is wrong.

Moreover, Muslims have a huge tendency to be insular... to only help "their own." It is not just the outsiders like me who see this... the adherents are themselves trying to be different, to create their own enclave in the midst of a free society. I know that German Baptists AND the Mormons AND other religious sects get that same kind of resentment in this state. They don't even want to "fit in" with our society... what's not to resent there? I have some real problems with people who come to my "free" society and then set up a bunch of rules for themselves that begin to spill over onto me.

Certainly Miss Flyer is to be commended for her honestly, but i have a real problem with this:

Piffka wrote:

Moreover, Muslims have a huge tendency to be insular... to only help "their own." It is not just the outsiders like me who see this... the adherents are themselves trying to be different, to create their own enclave in the midst of a free society. I know that German Baptists AND the Mormons AND other religious sects get that same kind of resentment in this state. They don't even want to "fit in" with our society... what's not to resent there? I have some real problems with people who come to my "free" society and then set up a bunch of rules for themselves that begin to spill over onto me.

I woud be interested to know how the insular character of Muslims will spill over onto you. You write: "I have some real problems with people who come to my 'free' society and the set up a bunch of rules for themselves . . ."--just before your spilling over onto you contention. How is a society a free society if they cannot live as they choose? Absent criminal activity, they are free to live how they choose, without regard to how relatively uncomfortable that may make you. You mentioned the Mormons--are you aware that the United States and the Mormons fought two "wars," and that the Second Mormon War in 1857-58 required the dispatch of United States troops? There has been no comparable behavior by Muslims who are citizens of this country. I find your objections odd, to say the least.

Not that I have anything against Muslims, but why is that everyone who bashes Christianity seems to give Islam a pass?

But, why bother trying to reason with you? You seem hell-bent on manipulating logic to suit your own needs.

Not that I have anything against Muslims, but why is that everyone who bashes Christianity seems to give Islam a pass?

Brandon9000 wrote:

No, it does not assume that. You, yourself, started a thread asking which religion was the most violent, and you even answered the question, which was more than I did. All I did was to add a few reasonable criteria for an event to be included. My post does not say what you are attributing to it. It says what it says. It asks Eric to provide correct statistics and that's all that it does. Citing statistics correctly cannot be called hatred or prejudice. I assure you that I have never in any way been impolite to a person from the Middle East or a Muslim unless that particular individual did something wrong himself, and I have no memory of even that happening. I do, however, suspect based on what I hear in the news, that if the question you asked were posed in a way I consider more relevant, talking about the modern world, incidents actually related to religion, and so on, that the Muslims would be the "winners." I don't know that it's true, but I certainly hear more incidents of that type in the news.

Yes, it does assume that. Yes, i started such a thread, but this is not that thread. That is disingenuous crap to say that you have not answered this question that you've asked E_brown. Your intent is clear and it does not relate to the justifiable criticism of those who use racist slurs agains Arabs or all Muslims because of the actions of a few. Your loaded questions seek to establish a justification for an extraordinary condemnation of Muslims, and in the context of this thread, that is a tacit approval of those who use such racist epithets.

No.

If it matters to you, you are attributing opinions to me which I do not hold. If you attribute a tacit nod to prejudice to me, you are incorrect. My opinion is that no one should ever be blamed for any but his own personal actions. Prejudice against a category of people is completely unacceptable and should not be tolerated ever.

However, I do believe that the modern incarnation of Islam may be the most violent of the world's main religions, when religious violence is defined reasonably. That is why as defined a set of reasonable criteria for terming an act religious violence, and then asked Eric to recount with those criteria.

......By the way, you did not ask E_brown to recount any criterion, you set him up to answer your question in only one way, or be branded as dishonest. You ignore the religiously motivated murders of the Serbs (Orthodox) in Slovenia (Catholic), Croatia (Catholic), Bosnia (largely casual Muslim) and Kosovo (Muslim). Are you confident that the Muslim fanatics have been more murderous than the Orthodox Serb fanatics? Are you comfortable with the incredible scale of horrifically brutal murder in Rwanda because it can be asserted that it was not religiously motivated? Everything you write on this subject suggests to me that you focus on the murders by Muslim fanatics, and ignore any evidence which contradicts your thesis--the fallacy of the enumeration of favorable circumstances. I suspect you are not being honest with yourself.

However, having said that, I have a question for ebrown.

1. During the past 50 years, that is, modern times
2. Considering only acts of terrorism, that is, acts directed specifically against non-combatants on purpose
3. Considering only acts motivated by religion
4. Considering only acts where the intention is bodily harm

how does Islam stack up to other religions, e.g. Christianity?

...You contine to sidestep the issue of the Balkans and Rwanda. You continue to focus only upon a contention that Islam is the most murderous religion.

...Once again, it is a loaded question, and it is not germane.

First the debunking...

There are several reasons people have put forward to justify their hatred of Islam as a religion, and Muslims in general.

1) Muslims are involved in more wars than any other religion. This is easily shown to not be true. In the current active wars, There is a major Christian involvement in conflicts in Columbia, Uganda, Congo, Sengal, Ivory Coast, Afganistan, Iraq, and Chechnya. There is a major Muslim inolvement in Iraq, Afganistan, Israel, Aceh, Algeria, Somalia and Sudan. There are some wars (e.g. Nepal) that neither religion is involved in...

Of all the things you could have focused on, you expended all your energy defending terrorists, with a little left over to blame George Bush.

Quote:

Of all the things you could have focused on, you expended all your energy defending terrorists, with a little left over to blame George Bush.

Actually I spend zero enery defending terrorists, all my energy goes into blaming George Bush. If George Bush spent more energy attacking terrorists instead of the people of Iraq there just might be fewer terrorists. That would be a plan, George has his own plan that seems to little to do with fighting terrorism. Nice segue though Lash. The conservative mindset seems hellbent on blaming liberals for their failed Iraq invasion.