Tonights Debate: Who wants to predict what new lines will be heard?

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

I watched it. Why would I need someone else to tell me the results of what I watched?

Is that something you need?

You are biased. I am biased.

Yesterday morning there was zero doubt that no matter what happened you would think Trump won the debate. I like to think that I am more open minded than that... but truthfully I am probably not.

That is why I look for an objective view.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Almost all viewers polls show Biden winning the debate.

This is why polls don't matter. They are polling people that answer polls...

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@maxdancona,

I also knew the Sun would rise in the East. I didn't need other people and their bias's telling me that.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

Almost all viewers polls show Biden winning the debate.

This is why polls don't matter. They are polling people that answer polls...

Hmmm

My question is What would you accept as objective evidence about who won the debate?

If you reject polls, but accept your personal reaction... that doesn't seems objective to me.

Nothing is perfect, but I am trying to find something that is more objective than my personal emotions.

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The number I am watching is the Trump approval rating (currently at 43% in the 538 average of polls).

If this number starts dipping, it will tell me something. Of course... if this number significantly rises, that will tell me I am wrong.

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https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dc4592f2c6157177c07adcf2c68871a2150e0d5e3cdc520ab4c204b662333a07.jpg?w=800&h=525

This picture made me laugh. I don't think it is an objective measure of the debate, but it is a good picture.

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@FreedomEyeLove,

It says that a bunch of regular people—violent, far-right, neo-fascist, White nationalist kind of regular people are supported, and given a shout out by Trump.

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@InfraBlue,

Quote:

neo-fascist, White nationalist

Where is your proof that the proud boys are "white nationalist neo-fascists"?

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@FreedomEyeLove,

FreedomEyeLove wrote:

Quote:
neo-fascist, White nationalist

Where is your proof that the proud boys are "white nationalist neo-fascists"?

Interesting... so you aren't arguing with the Proud Boys being characterized as Violent and Far Right.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

so you aren't arguing with the Proud Boys being characterized as Violent and Far Right.

No, that's not the case. But those two qualifiers are much more subjective than "white nationalist neo-fascist".

What soccer mom normies like you consider "Violent and Far Right" (why on earth would you capitalize those terms?) is going to be much different from someone like myself who knows more about what's actually going on in the counter culture.

To label something "white nationalist neo-fascist", you have to actually have proof. Those are much less nebulous concepts than "violent and far right".

Do you follow me?

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@FreedomEyeLove,

1) Nationalist is definitely subjective. How do you decide who is nationalist or not?
2) What the hell is a "neo-fascist"? Fascist and neo-facist are completely subjective terms (that are meaningless in the modern political context).

These are clearly subjective terms. If they aren't, then tell me what objective way I can measure between a nationalist and a non-nationalist?

Even the definition of the word "White" changes from generation to generation... at one time Italians and the Irish were hated by the KKK.

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@maxdancona,

"Neo" just means a new form of something or a revival.

White nationalism and fascism are well defined by logical, level headed folks who are able to recognize objective reality.

Progressives, on the other hand, call everything under the sun "white supremacy" (i.e. white nationalism), and "fascism", such that the words have lost their meaning in a contemporary sense.

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@maxdancona,

Also, no evidence exists to suggest that the Proud Boys are white nationalists or fascists, apart from unfounded allegations from Marxist groups.

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@FreedomEyeLove,

FreedomEyeLove wrote:

White nationalism and fascism are well defined by logical, level headed folks who are able to recognize objective reality.

There are people on the right who believe that Nancy Pelosi is a fascist.
There are people on the left who believe that Donald Trump is a fascist.

Whether you believe one of the other has only to do with your partisan beliefs. That is the definition of "subjective".

Objective means that people on both sides will agree with the term. No one sane doubts that Nancy Pelosi is an American citizen. That is because there is a specific definition of what makes an American citizen. We all agree on the definition and we apply it to everyone the same whether they are on our side or not.

The word "fascism" refers to a political movement in Europe the early 1900s. The definition of fascism has to do with Guilds... which doesn't even make sense in modern American society (anyone who would fit into the real fascists is long dead).

The word is an insult. It hasn't meant anything more than a random undefined insult since the end of WWII. You can use the word "fascist" for anything you want.. and people.

My hypothesis is that there is no person on the planet that that both you (on the extreme right) and Izzy (on the extreme left) would agree is a fascist. That is what the word "subjective" means.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

both you (on the extreme right)

I am center right. Your assessment is incorrect.

The points from my earlier posts remain valid.

The objective definition of fascism and white nationalism are what I was referring to.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Whether you believe one of the other has only to do with your partisan beliefs. That is the definition of "subjective".

Objective means that people on both sides will agree with the term. No one sane doubts that Nancy Pelosi is an American citizen. That is because there is a specific definition of what makes an American citizen. We all agree on the definition and we apply it to everyone the same whether they are on our side or not.

The word "fascism" refers to a political movement in Europe the early 1900s. The definition of fascism has to do with Guilds... which doesn't even make sense in modern American society (anyone who would fit into the real fascists is long dead).

The word is an insult. It hasn't meant anything more than a random undefined insult since the end of WWII. You can use the word "fascist" for anything you want.. and people.

My hypothesis is that there is no person on the planet that that both you (on the extreme right) and Izzy (on the extreme left) would agree is a fascist. That is what the word "subjective" means.

I disagree. It's a reasonable attempt at objective and subjective, but I think it misses the mark.

If one group is completely delusional and refuses to accept reality, and a second group is grounded in facts and reality, they will not agree on terms.

However, that does not mean that facts and reality are now subjective. It only means that the one group is completely delusional.

This is the case with modern society. Modern progressives are completely delusional.

As for fascism, it is merely a more militant and deranged version of populism.

I'm personally not a fan of populism. It takes all the bad ideas from both the right and the left and combines them into an unwholesome concoction that is bad for the nation.

Neither Donald Trump nor Nancy Pelosi is a fascist.

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@FreedomEyeLove,

Please tell me the objective definition of fascism.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

If one group is completely delusional and refuses to accept reality, and a second group is grounded in facts and reality, they will not agree on terms.

This made me laugh! This is your idea of being objective Wink

.

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@maxdancona,

Yes. And I'm correct. The truth does not lie somewhere "between" reality and delusion.

The truth is what is real. Progressive delusion does not change what the truth is.

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@oralloy,

Yes Oralloy, I get it. You are correct because you are correct. You are right because you are right. And no facts can disprove anything you say.

Facts can be disproven. If something is a fact, then you can tell me what specific evidence would disprove it.

If there is no way to disprove something, then it is an opinion not a fact. And it is impossible to disprove an opinion. You keep stating your opinions are facts, but you have never offered us any way to test them.

I have told you how to prove that something is a fact... if you want me to accept something you believe as a fact, then tell me how to test it.

1 Reply

Tonights Debate: Who wants to predict what new lines will be heard?

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