Childhood demons

yitwail wrote:

i think this little snippet fits a2k nicely:

"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

Oh interesting - now that we've gotten into literary allusions, I have a few to throw out.
1) The three witches (also known as the "weird sisters) who play an integral part in foretelling the action in Macbeth - not very friendly women - but they have an uncanny ability to tell peoples' fortunes.

2) A much more apt analogy than Alice in Wonderland, would be "The Crucible" by Arthur Miller because the governement in l692 in Salem was a Puritan theocracy. In other words, the town was under the unbending authority of the church. The leaders of the church were very powerful figures. A person who was not in good standing of the church was not allowed to live in the community. All citizens were expected to conform to the teachings of the church at all times and to unerringly follow its catechism, or "off with their head" - well, not exactly, they were hung, or crushed with rocks.... same thing, right?

3)And speaking of childhood demons: A lesser-known novel perhaps, but a classic that should be absolutely required reading for all children with a tendency toward bullying and for those adults who( for whatever reason) haven't been able to get it out of their systems: I am the King of the Castle by Susan Hill. An excerpt:
"Some people are coming today, " said Mr. Hooper. "Now you will have a companion." But his son Edmund did not want any other boy in the isolated Victorian house. It was his house. He was the King here. But Kingshaw still came, with his bright, genteel mother. Hooper hated him. He was an intruder to be subtly persecuted. Hooper learned fast how to turn the most ordinary objects into sources of terrorism...."

This forum is just a mother lode. I can add to my original thesis concerning gender differences in communication a chapter on literary allusions and allegories, another on mob mentality in cyber space, and yet another on cyber bullying.... Keep writing - I promise I'll keep reading...

0 Replies

Hey, Aidan, er, um, are you implying that YW and crew were fitting the category of bullies, or the opposite side? (Not to worry, I'm not asking this to argue, just bec. I'm trying to get a better feel for who's on what side of which "fence," ya know? Smile

)

0 Replies

diagknowz wrote:

Hey, Aidan, er, um, are you implying that YW and crew were fitting the category of bullies, or the opposite side? (Not to worry, I'm not asking this to argue, just bec. I'm trying to get a better feel for who's on what side of which "fence," ya know? )

No. Explain.

0 Replies

I wasn't responding to a name (i.e. "Yitwail") or a person - or more accurately an avatar with a screenname attached who may or may not personify a real person - I was responding to the idea of literary allusions or allegories as they fit the subject at hand- Yitwail's quote was a handy segue - that's it. I have no idea "what side" if any, Yitwail or anyone else on this specific thread might "man". Are you informing me that there are "sides" on A2K? - What a novel concept.... Cool

0 Replies

aidan wrote:

....thread might "man". Are you informing me that there are "sides" on A2K? - What a novel concept....

Great sense of humor, Aidan! :wink:

0 Replies

John Jones wrote:

diagknowz wrote:
Hey, Aidan, er, um, are you implying that YW and crew were fitting the category of bullies, or the opposite side? (Not to worry, I'm not asking this to argue, just bec. I'm trying to get a better feel for who's on what side of which "fence," ya know? )
No. Explain.

Er, um, JJ, are you the same person as Aidan? Further back, too, there was a mix-up between you and Anonymouse (on his part, that is).

As for explaining: Aidan mentioned something about bullies. That's where my question stemmed from.

0 Replies

Aha, now I understand what's really going on. A shill. Pretty pathetic.

0 Replies

Quote:

My experience and research has led me from hogwash to here - here being puzzled over how much of life and the choices that we make in that life are indeed attributable to childhood experience.

Pardon me all for butting in, but I'm going to try responding to the original question. I'm interested in it too, since I confront this in my work.

I'm going to start off by saying that I will not touch on any legal aspects of this issue ie someone before a court, how to decide who is 'treated' versus imprisioned, who should be 'allowed' certain aspects of life in soceity

Boom, way to go for searching around for answers to help that boy. You deserve a beer for that:)

Here's my thoughts:

1) Yes, childhood experiences do have an effect on someone's choices. The extent is individual ( this is my opinion )
2) In some cases the brain and body has been altered chemically/physically in a permenent way and will affect the rest of that person's life. This sometimes happens to those who have gone through serious trauma/abuse.
I am not talking about emotional/mental patterns. I'm talking about biology. No arguing: people are composed in variation.
3) A person who faces biological damage does not have the same choices, coping abilities, or outlook as someone who does not.
4) A person living with such may or not succeed in adapting to living well with the rest of the population
5) A human being always has responsibility for themselves, and free will; the only question is determining the level of their abilities.

I know , none of this is new. I'm trying to think too.

This issue has been brought up a lot in my workplace, and I want to hear more!

0 Replies

Hi flushd and welcome to the thread (and thanks for getting us back to the orignial question!)

In a way, it's the old nature v. nurture argument -- with the impact on biology added for extra confusion.

Where is it that you work and how do these conversations come up in your career?

0 Replies

flushd wrote:

Quote:

1) Yes, childhood experiences do have an effect on someone's choices. The extent is individual ( this is my opinion )
2) In some cases the brain and body has been altered chemically/physically in a permenent way and will affect the rest of that person's life. This sometimes happens to those who have gone through serious trauma/abuse.
I am not talking about emotional/mental patterns. I'm talking about biology. No arguing: people are composed in variation.
3) A person who faces biological damage does not have the same choices, coping abilities, or outlook as someone who does not.
4) A person living with such may or not succeed in adapting to living well with the rest of the population
5) A human being always has responsibility for themselves, and free will; the only question is determining the level of their abilities.

I know , none of this is new. I'm trying to think too.

This issue has been brought up a lot in my workplace, and I want to hear more!

There is no such thing in biology as 'childhood biology' or 'biological damage'. These terms are colloquialisms or phrases of convenience. So you can't say that biology shows us these things.

0 Replies

Enough already!

We understand your position Mr. Jones. I hope that you understand that despite how misguided you may feel that we are, that we hold our own position on this matter and it differs from yours.

Some of us want to discuss our position.

I would appreciate it if you would stop disrupting the thread with your silly game. It is very tiresome.

Of course you are free to post on the thread and there is no way that I could (or would) stop you. However, I am going to ignore your silly posts and I encourage other's to do the same.

0 Replies

btw, boomerang, i'm back & willing to tilt with Mr. Jones anew if the need arises. i've posted a reply to him in a different thread, and i'm waiting to see what develops.

0 Replies

I am really interested in the original discussion and would rather see the tangent discussion originated by John Jones have it's own Topic. I might read it there.

0 Replies

Hi yitwail! You're welcome to sidebar here to your heart's content.

I just don't want other's who might think of joining the thread to feel they have to respond to Mr. Jones' nonsense.

I'm interested in what flushd and others might have to say without being dogged (puppied, in this case) by Mr. Jones.

I'm going to continue to read the thread because this is a topic that I have a great interst in.

I have no illusions that Mr. Jones will simply drop his little game so please feel free to carry on your discussion with him. Meanwhile the rest of us can choose to use the scroll bar.

I'm nodding along to Osso but I fear Mr. Jones' ego will prevent him from leaving us to our discussion. Therefore I encourage yitwail to sic 'em.

0 Replies

thanks, boomerang, for another indulgence. Smile

the original topic happens to be of interest to me as well--which is why i joined the fray in the first place--so i'd be delighted if the thread stays on topic.

0 Replies

Pleasant and unpleasant experiences can influence the structure of the developing brain.

Anatomy is destiny--but destiny can be modified by individual choice.

I've heard too many men of my generation sigh, "My mother ruined my life." These are men in their 60's--college educated and reasonably successful in their careers. They want to be forgiven for being personal SOB's because of their mean mommies!

Really.

0 Replies

Pleasant and unpleasant experiences can influence the structure of the developing brain.

Anatomy is destiny--but destiny can be modified by individual choice.

Quote:

You said what I was trying to say, Noddy:)

Yup, I'm gonna ignore Jones 'cause that's a diff. topic.

Boom, I currently work in homecare and in a shelter for the homeless. I'm on the 'front lines' and have the (tiring) task of working with social workers, the gov't, families, and advocacy groups.
Because I am involved in the day-to-day lives of people who are living with all sorts of challenges (physical, emotional, social, behavioral, and mental); my collegues and I are always searching out for explanations for why these problems have come about/ how to best work with this person in living well.

It's not always easy to know. The lines are often blurred.
There are competing agendas amongst people in the community, and that influences the level of care a person may receive.

To know where someone can be held accountable and where it is out of their control is really important in working with them.

There are so many messy aspects and off-shoots to this basic question:
nature/nurture?!

Boom, I'm curious how the lad you are referring to is involved in your life? Is he living with you?

0 Replies

flushd wrote:

Pleasant and unpleasant experiences can influence the structure of the developing brain.

Anatomy is destiny--but destiny can be modified by individual choice.
Quote:

You said what I was trying to say, Noddy:)

Yup, I'm gonna ignore Jones 'cause that's a diff. topic.

Boom, I currently work in homecare and in a shelter for the homeless. I'm on the 'front lines' and have the (tiring) task of working with social workers, the gov't, families, and advocacy groups.
Because I am involved in the day-to-day lives of people who are living with all sorts of challenges (physical, emotional, social, behavioral, and mental); my collegues and I are always searching out for explanations for why these problems have come about/ how to best work with this person in living well.

It's not always easy to know. The lines are often blurred.
There are competing agendas amongst people in the community, and that influences the level of care a person may receive.

To know where someone can be held accountable and where it is out of their control is really important in working with them.

There are so many messy aspects and off-shoots to this basic question:
nature/nurture?!

Boom, I'm curious how the lad you are referring to is involved in your life? Is he living with you?

I have come to my senses. You are quite right of course. How do we tell people what's wrong with them? Do we tell them their brains or their upbringing is causing everyone problems? I think once we know for certain then they will have no choice but to accept that they are being controlled by nature or nurture against their will. Then we might be able to change things. My brain has been changing shape gradually over the years because of experiences, but I need to know which shapes are good and which are bad. If doctors could examine my brain in a scanning machine they might be able to tell me what parts are the correct shape and what parts are not. Then they could alter them so that the shape is corrected and I will be cured.

0 Replies

Hi flushd, interesting input and nice to see you here. (On board with the ignoring thing btw.)

0 Replies

The lines are often blurred.

I agree with Noddy that ultimately we have to accept responsibility for our actions. Sometimes that requires that we seek treatment for help in avoiding our baser impulses.

Sadly, we don't make it easy for people to get treatment. Even with insurance, help is not always available.

You ARE on the front lines, I can't even imagine how difficult your job must be. Casey Family just ran a survey in my city regarding what happens to kids that age out of foster care -- I'll bet you see a few of them during the course of your day.

The boy I'm referring to does live with me. He's 4.5 and has lived with me for 2.5 years. We're working towards adopting him.

Luckily, he wasn't seriously damaged but we all face a few challenges in dealing with some of his early experiences. He still has some contact with his biological family and we deal with the challenges that brings to the table too.

A2K has really been such a helpful resource to me as I muddle my way through. The most important thing I've learned is what questions to ask and who to ask them to (and who to ignore).

0 Replies

Childhood demons

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know