Childhood demons

"Mana" is an interesting idea, Noddy. I love simple words that encompass complex ideas.

Okay, John Jones, I'll try to clear that up. What is meant by a brain disorder can be epilepsy, dementia, autism, asperger's syndrome, OCD, RAD, ADHD, schizophrenia - the list goes on and on.

I'm not a neurologist so I don't have access to a lot of PET scans but some can be found on the internet that show comparisons between "normal" brains and "disordered" brains. I'll see if I can find one for you.

Since we are talking about childhood experience here is a very interesting and relevent article on infant brain development: http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/states_traits.asp

Here's a tiny bit of the article:

Quote:

Abnormal micro-environmental cues and atypical patterns of neural activity during critical and sensitive periods, then, can result in malorganization and compromised function in brain- mediated functions such as humor, empathy, attachment and affect regulation . Some of the most powerful clinical examples of this phenomemon are related to lack of attachment experiences early in life. The child who has been emotionally neglected early in life will exhibit profound attachment problems which are extremely insensitive to any replacement experiences later in life, including therapy. Examples of this include feral children, children in orphanages observed by Spitz and Wolf (1946) and, often, the remorseless, violent child (Perry, Blakley, Pollard, in press).

Really though, if you Google "neurobiology" you will find more information than you can shake a stick at.

I'm curious whether you might be a Scientologist or an adherent of Intellegent Design Theory. If so, I know our debate will go in circles forever and it will hardly be worth the effort for either of us.

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boomerang wrote:

"Mana" is an interesting idea, Noddy. I love simple words that encompass complex ideas.

Okay, John Jones, I'll try to clear that up. What is meant by a brain disorder can be epilepsy, dementia, autism, asperger's syndrome, OCD, RAD, ADHD, schizophrenia - the list goes on and on.

You are not answering my question. I do not have any 'beliefs' on this topic. I am simply asking you about the term 'disorder' as it is used in the term 'brain disorder'. What specific property tells you that there is a disorder present? That's all I want to know. I will give you an example of the problem:

"Abnormal micro-environmental cues and atypical patterns of neural activity during critical and sensitive periods, then, can result in malorganization and compromised function in brain- mediated functions"

In this quote, we have an example of circular reasoning. 'Mal-organization' is caused by an 'abnormality', and the 'abnormality' is a 'cue' taken from 'malorganization' of brain-mediated functions and neural activity.

So my question is, how is disorder defined in the term 'brain disorder'? Can you answer this without assuming disorder by the use of similar terms, such as 'mal-organization'?

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Thats a very insiteful point John. How can we say that a brain is abnormal if we have no normal "control" so to say. But im sure someone who walks around with his fingers tensed and face slack doesnt have the efficient brain "normality". Shocked

Im not sure i can fathom what an abused child experiences as he grows up. I think that a childs' reality and view of the world is created through his/her upbringing. What he experiences and learns is how he will solve his problems, spend his money, and treat those around him.
I find that I would rather hang out with the kids who I work out with than my friends from school who sit at their house all day on their computers. Is this because the kids who have a strict 20 hour workout schedule learn better morals? Or is it because they get out more often? Another interesting thing that I notice is that the kids who do a sport get much better grades and are faster to get good jobs.

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skinywhtboy wrote:

Thats a very insiteful point John. How can we say that a brain is abnormal if we have no normal "control" so to say. But im sure someone who walks around with his fingers tensed and face slack doesnt have the efficient brain "normality".

Right, so you are saying that a 'disorder' is a social definition, and that a correspondingly 'disordered brain' is only disordered in a social sense. This is why the term 'disordered' with its physical connotations, is misleading. This does not prevent most scientists from using the term 'disorder', and others like it, in this deceitful way.

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Cortisol levels.

Dopamine levels.

Leisons.

Tangles and plaques.

Overactive parts of the brain.

Underactive parts of the brain.

Tumors.

These are some causes of disordered brains that are measurable and observable that are not social.

I suppose if you want me to define a word without using any words that define it then I am at a loss.

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Brains are not interchangable body parts.

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boomerang wrote:

Cortisol levels.

Dopamine levels.

Leisons.

Tangles and plaques.

Overactive parts of the brain.

Underactive parts of the brain.

Tumors.

These are some causes of disordered brains that are measurable and observable that are not social.

I suppose if you want me to define a word without using any words that define it then I am at a loss.

You are restating the problem in a different form and leaving it unanswered: Instead of 'disordered' you use the terms 'over' active, 'under' active.

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I'm not using "over" and "under" in some kind of arbitrary fashion - I'm talking about measurable levels of brain activity.

http://www.hope4ocd.com/graphics/petscan1.gif

But enough of the freshman philosophy parlor tricks with all this "define blah blah blah" baloney. It really isn't adding anything to the conversation.

Yes, Noddy, sadly they are not.

When my father was dying from Alzheimer's and my friend's father was dying from Parkenson's I remember having many brain transplant conversations.

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boomerang wrote:

I'm not using "over" and "under" in some kind of arbitrary fashion - I'm talking about measurable levels of brain activity.

But enough of the freshman philosophy parlor tricks with all this "define blah blah blah" baloney. It really isn't adding anything to the conversation.

Yes, Noddy, sadly they are not.

When my father was dying from Alzheimer's and my friend's father was dying from Parkenson's I remember having many brain transplant conversations.

There is no high trickery here. I am being down to earth. I am trying to clear the ground by removing the double-speak engendered by the use of terms such as 'disorder' and other hybrid words. You used the terms 'over' and 'under' without clarifying how the decision that a property is over or under is arrived at.

It's not baloney. You want to tell us that images of brain activity tell us things. But they quite plainly do not. The significance of images of brain activity is not derived from the images themselves, but from everyday decisions of what we regard as important in experience and behaviour. We then map these social decisions onto brain activity pictures. It doesn't happen the other way round. The pictures themselves do not tell us what we experience. Matter does not show us what is valuable in experience, or even experience itself.

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Don't flatter yourself Mr. Norrell.

Oh! I'm sorry. I meant Mr. Jones.

You have not been accused of "high trickery" but of "freshman philosophy parlor tricks".

And yes, it is baloney.

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Eyep.

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What we say three times is true.

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boomerang wrote:

Don't flatter yourself Mr. Norrell.

Oh! I'm sorry. I meant Mr. Jones.

You have not been accused of "high trickery" but of "freshman philosophy parlor tricks".

And yes, it is baloney.

We speak of the blindness and irrationality of people's religious beliefs. I think we can say the same of their scientific beliefs.

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Speak for yourself.

You won't find me speaking of the blindness and irrationality of anyone's religious beliefs.

Or perhaps you're using the royal "we".

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boomerang wrote:

Speak for yourself.

You won't find me speaking of the blindness and irrationality of anyone's religious beliefs.

We know why.

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I love love love it when people make assumptions.

Please, tell me "why".

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Boomer--

Have another Boston Cream Pie.

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Is there an adult beverage that replicates a Boston Cream Pie?

I think it might be called for.

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Pie AND alcohol!

Dinner is served.

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I submit the following definition to Mr. John Jones for his consideration:

Alzheimer's disease

n.

A disease marked by the loss of cognitive ability, generally over a period of 10 to 15 years, and associated with the development of abnormal tissues and protein deposits in the cerebral cortex.

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Childhood demons

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