Setanta wrote:Not necessarily the same bible, but close enough. Moishe is engaged in another of his enraged rants against the goyim--whether it's Muslims or Christians, he hates them all, and has a line of burroshit to back it all up.
The Roman Church, per se, did not exist in the third century--the late third and early fourth centuries is the era when Diocletian (the Roman Emperor) tried to exterminate Christianity. The work of Pamphilus and of Eusebius created the "new testament" as it exists today, and that was in the fourth century, and the church to which they adhered was the direct ancestor of the Orthodox Church, not the Roman Church. That the Roman Church was founded from the same source--the Council of Nicea in 325 CE--is coincidence, and not evidence for Moishe's bizarre rant. That council was convened by Constantine because the Christians were in an uproar over the controversial denial of the trinity and of the divinity of the alleged Jesus by Arius of Alexandria. The Emperor Constantine allowed the establishment of a Christian community within the Empire--and did not, as Christians allege, establish that religion as the state religion. Syriac and Nestorian Christians spread out all over the Middle East and Central Asia, reaching as far as China, before the Bishop of Rome was ever reputed to be the leader of the church. This is another example of how Moishe amplifies his resentments into wild statements, and of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing--he reads enough history to attempt to support his wild statements, and not to learn anything approaching the truth.
When you read anything that Moishe writes, Amigo, keep in mind that he has a deep and abiding resentment of Christians, and hatred of Muslims.
Ah yes, well... I suppose the pejorative invective does make for authoritative reading...
Still so odd.
I am not quite sure how to put this...
The Roman Empire is generally referred to as Rome.
I have usually found that what is called the Roman Church was generally considered as founded by Constantine...
Constantine did remove the Roman Empire to the East (where it lasted another 1,000 years after the fall of the Western Roman Empire).
So, I suppose therefore that I should have been referring to the Eastern Roman Empire (which did not exist as a separate entity at that time) as opposed to the Church of Rome.
Then again, I have not been able to find a solid reference to what the church was called in the 3, 4, 5, 6, and 700's other than the Roman church. Perhaps the Ecumenical Christian Church of the Roman Empire?
Nonetheless, I was referring to Rome, as in the Roman Empire, as opposed to the city of Rome, which was not particularly significant to the origins of Chrisitianity.
The city of Rome, which later became the Roman Catholic Church; and, all of Christendom, which included the Eastern Orthodox tradition, had its origins in the dogma and dialect of the Church of the Roman Empire, which began in the East under Constantine. The dogma and dialectic of this Church was formulated in the 3, 4, and 500's.
The Roman Empire officially adopted Christianity as a state religon in 380 CE, under Emperor Theodosius.
The Church of the Roman Empire (The Christian Belief System That Was Supported by Roman Emperors Most of the Time?) was nonetheless, firmly established by this time, in spite of Diocletian's later attempts to bring back pagan worship.
In 313 CE, Emperor Constantine established the Edict of Milan, which made toleration for Christianity, formally considered a bad thing, into Law.
The rather famous Council of Nicea was held in 325 CE. Nicea was located in what is today Turkey; in what was to become the Eastern Roman Empire. This Council was held under the authority of Constantine, who was considered the Head of the Church (of Costantine the Christian Emperor?).
This Council was one of many that tried to establish official Church doctrine. It was called by the Emperor Constantine who was ticked off at his warring bishops who vehemently disagreed on the nature of Jesus, particularly whether he was: a man only; given divinity by G-d; G-d made man; divine from birth; divine from baptism; divine from death; and/or divine from resurrection.
Only about 250 to 318 bishops out of approximately the 1,800 bishops that then existed (in Christendom?) attended this Council. Most came from the Eastern half of the Roman Empire.
The Emperor Constantine, resolved the deadlocked, passionate, violent Council of Bishops by deciding in favor of one of the two most popular doctrines, which was the doctrine of Athanasius. The rest of the bishops were offered two options: agree with the Emperor or be exiled. This was not a matter of faith for Constantine. It was a matter of practicality in trying to keep peace in his Roman Empire.
This Council produced the Nicene Creed, which declared that Jesus was "of one substance with the Father," theorectically proclaiming his divinity.
However, many bishops and churches refused to recognize the Council's and the Emperor's decision.
The religion of Christianity was not yet fully formed...
The division of authority over east and west was also made at this time, by fiat, by the Emperor - the bishop of Alexandria in Egypt would have doctrinal authority over the eastern half of the empire and the bishop of Rome would have doctrinal authority over the western portion of the empire.
In 330 CE, Constantine decided to build a "New Rome" on the site of Byzantium - Constantinople. This became the center of the now, largely Christian Roman Empire.
Other Councils that decided Christian dogma and doctrine during this time period of the origins of Christianity were the Councils of: Laodicea; Constantinople; Carthage; Chalcedon; more Constantinople Councils; more Nicea Councils... These all lasted from Constantine through Justinian and Basil I in the 800's.
All Roman Emperors, including particularly Theodosius throughout the 300's, continued to issue decrees as to the nature of the Church and its doctrines. One (Diocletian) even outlawed Christianity.
The western bishops, today called the Roman Catholic Church, were under the aegis of this (Ecumenical Church of the Christian Roman Empire?) Church of Rome. They began to get feisty on doctrinal issues under the Second Council of Constantinople, in 553, and the Second Nicean Council, in 787, which was the last Council where the now two increasingly separate churches, of the East and West, were in agreement.
The main issue, which is separate from Setana's rather odd invective above, is that the idea that Jesus was G-d was declared as Church doctrine by one man, the Emperor Constantine, and was reinforced by a voting majority of bishops throughout the several hundred years that the Ecumenical Church of the Christian Roman Empire... (ah, the heck with it, you label it), the Church of Rome, was formulating its doctrines.
This is what Christianity is based upon.
There was a great deal of disagreement; heresy; head-breaking; excommunications; riotous meetings; and other unpleasantness, over a several hundred year period until whatever the heck you want to call the Christian church, agreed that Jesus was divine.
That's the fac' Jac.
it with this "dude in the sheet"?
It seems ta me, ya need ta just sit down and read the second half of the Bible, OK? (Merely for accuracy's sake, as I might read a midrash to better understand a passage in the Tanakh.)