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Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

 
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 02:14 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Am I? Which lie have I defended C.I.?


all of them, from what i've seen.

you must really hate america the way you support those seeking it's downfall.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 02:30 pm
Quote:
The Plame Floodgates Open
by Hunter
Fri Jul 22nd, 2005 at 13:24:15 PDT

It's only been a few days since the Supreme Court nominee was hurriedly announced in an attempt to get Karl Rove off the front pages. Since then, all hell has broken loose.

Bloomberg is reporting that Rove and Libby both gave testimony to the grand jury that flatly conflicts with the testimony given by those they said they talked to.

We now know that the Top Secret memo most consistent with the talking points that Rove and Libby told reporters was seen in the hands of Press Secretary Ari Fleischer in the days before the leak occurred. And that Fleischer told the grand jury he never saw it.

This is, to use the most calm and soothing phrase possible in such circumstances, extremely f---ing bad for the administration. It shows the broad outlines not just of multiple perjury charges, but indeed of linked conspiracy charges against a number of administration officials.

We know that there are members of the administration familiar with the attack against Plame/Wilson who have been talking to prosecutors. At least, we can assume they've been telling prosecutors at least as much as they've been telling the press, or we'd have a whole passel of reporters likely joining Judith Miller in her Fortress of Suddenly Discovered Integrity. The fact that other administration officials have been giving their side of the story perhaps poses the most serious risk of all for Rove and others -- because it wouldn't be very difficult, for people in the right places, to shatter what little plausible deniability Rove, Libby, Fleischer, and others have been clinging to.

That branch may already be broken, in fact. I don't think it's possible to exaggerate the amount of legal danger here for Rove in particular, and Fleischer and Libby as well. The special counsel is likely trying to solidify how, exactly, Rove learned the information in the memo, since it's looking increasingly implausible that reporters told him, and looking more probable that Rove and Novak "agreed" on a storyline after the fact (reports are now saying that Rove's and Novak's stories don't quite match, too, further raising the stakes.) Note, however, that it may not matter whether the grand jury can fully identify how he came by the information. Rove has now been identified as confirming the classified info to both Novak and Cooper; that in and of itself represents a likely crime under the Espionage Act.

* ::
*

While we've been treated before to a series of fairly pointless leaks transparently by Luskin, Rove's attorney, since then we've been treated to far more significant leaks coming from the special counsel's office, the grand jury, and/or fellow witnesses unfriendly to Rove. Regardless of whether the leaks are intentional or not, it likely moves up Fitzgerald's timetable for any possible indictments -- once the information is public, and the defendants know what you're working on, it rapidly closes down avenues for further investigation, and it's time to put the cards on the table.

And in the middle, the President of the United States is wading in hipboots through the worst of it. As more leaks come out, Bush continues to embrace those figures now known to have played pivotal roles in the outing of a CIA NOC agent, even as the investigation becomes more encompassing and the questions, more pointed. Towards what end was Press Secretary Ari Fleischer -- who had already announced his imminent retirement from the administration, and was hardly a member of the Bush intelligence circle -- given access to classified Wilson information seemingly intended specifically, on Air Force One, for Powell and Bush? How is it that so many administration figures could be simultaneously involved, and the campaign against Wilson be orchestrated according to such specific classified talking points? What did the president and vice president know of the involvement of their immediate staff in the outing -- and, critically, when did they learn it, and what did they do about it?

What poses perhaps the greatest threat of all for the Bush administration is that, as each news agency puts the story in the hands of some of the best investigative reporters, the various threads of the story are being woven into a compelling -- and disastrous -- storyline. A Bush administration crime, carried out by Watergate-era and Iran-Contra figures that this administration has embraced wholeheartedly, done in the service of shoring up "fixed" evidence used to justify a preemptive war. And news services are tying the Plame outing to the "fixed" nuclear intelligence cited by Bush in his pre-war declarations to the nation. Those links are, finally, being made, and it's beginning to make the Nixon White House look like a Norman Rockwell painting in comparison.

There is very little time left for the White House to come up with some path -- any path -- by which to distance themselves from the wider allegations against not just Rove, but against the president and vice president themselves. Instead, they are stonewalling reporters asking them to clarify their involvement. In fact, both Bush and Press Secretary Scott McClellan haven't even backed off their previous public statements that Rove, by name, wasn't involved -- they've just refused to discuss it.

That's not going to cut it. The President needs to answer for his subordinates, who at this point are looking like they have given up any credible pretenses of innocence, and are now simply shopping for the weakest possible charges against them.


Whole ton of links in there if you follow the link here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/22/162415/235

Cheers

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 02:32 pm
Thanks for various links you've provided, Cycloptichorn.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 02:37 pm
In the "comments" section, found this:

Quote:
Ex-CIA Officers Rip Bush Over Rove Leak
By DONNA DE LA CRUZ
The Associated Press
Friday, July 22, 2005; 3:22 PM

WASHINGTON -- Former U.S. intelligence officers criticized President Bush on Friday for not disciplining Karl Rove in connection with the leak of the name of a CIA officer, saying Bush's lack of action has jeopardized national security.

In a hearing held by Senate and House Democrats examining the implications of exposing Valerie Plame's identity, the former intelligence officers said Bush's silence has hampered efforts to recruit informants to help the United States fight the war on terror. Federal law forbids government officials from revealing the identity of an undercover intelligence officer.

"I wouldn't be here this morning if President Bush had done the one thing required of him as commander in chief _ protect and defend the Constitution," said Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst. "The minute that Valerie Plame's identity was outed, he should have delivered a strict and strong message to his employees."

Rove, Bush's deputy chief of staff, told Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper in a 2003 phone call that former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife worked for the CIA on weapons of mass destruction issues, according to an account by Cooper in the magazine. Rove has not disputed that he told Cooper that Wilson's wife worked for the agency, but has said through his lawyer that he did not mention her by name.

In July 2003, Robert Novak, citing unnamed administration officials, identified Plame by name in his syndicated column and wrote that she worked for the CIA. The column has led to a federal criminal investigation into who leaked Plame's undercover identity. New York Times reporter Judith Miller _ who never wrote a story about Plame _ has been jailed for refusing to testify.

Bush said last week, "I think it's best that people wait until the investigation is complete before you jump to conclusions. And I will do so, as well."

Dana Perino, a White House spokesman, said Friday that the administration would have no comment on the investigation while it was continuing.

Patrick Lang, a retired Army colonel and defense intelligence officer, said Bush's silence sends a bad signal to foreigners who might be thinking of cooperating with the U.S. on intelligence matters.

"This says to them that if you decide to cooperate, someone will give you up, so you don't do it," Lang said. "They are not going to trust you in any way."

Johnson, who said he is a registered Republican, said he wished a GOP lawmaker would have the courage to stand up and "call the ugly dog the ugly dog."

"Where are these men and women with any integrity to speak out against this?" Johnson asked. "I expect better behavior out of Republicans."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/22/AR2005072201261.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 02:38 pm
I like this part the best: "A Bush administration crime, carried out by Watergate-era and Iran-Contra figures that this administration has embraced wholeheartedly, done in the service of shoring up "fixed" evidence used to justify a preemptive war. And news services are tying the Plame outing to the "fixed" nuclear intelligence cited by Bush in his pre-war declarations to the nation. Those links are, finally, being made, and it's beginning to make the Nixon White House look like a Norman Rockwell painting in comparison."

There's a famous Asian saying, "picture worth a thousand words."
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 02:49 pm
Sigh, and we STILL haven't learned what Fitzgerald knows!

Or what he is pursuing. And yet more and more of the pieces are coming to light. Not just Luskin's words about Rove, either.

I'm really starting to think that Miller's real reason for staying in jail is because the source that she is protecting is, shall we say, troublesome:

For your inspection:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/22/7563/12283

It's too long to post, but there is a huge rundown of fake intelligence, Fake intelligence AGENCIES, where the false Niger documents CAME from, and a guy named Michael Ledeen, who some of you may be familiar with.

Aw hell, here's the intro:

Quote:
Niger Yellowcake and The Man Who Forged Too Much
by Pen
Fri Jul 22nd, 2005 at 04:56:03 PDT

They say all roads lead to Rome. Well, this one certainly does. It's a road that starts in Paris, at the door of Iranian arms dealer and Mossad double agent Manucher Ghorbanifar, a man known to the CIA as an "intelligence fabricator". It's a road that runs through Niger uranium mines, past a Genoan fascist organization operating as a parallel Italian intelligence network with ties to Rocco Martino, and down the streets of Milan, where a CIA operative, now considered a fugitive at large by Italian authorities, once operated.

Ultimately, however, it is a road that does not end in Rome. It runs past that ancient icon of Imperial corruption and leads us to Washington D.C., past a Federal Investigation into Israeli espionage and right up to the steps of the White House and Dick Cheney's Office of Special Plans.


Cheers

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 02:51 pm
Oh, and an update to the Dkos link three posts ago:

Quote:
Update [2005-7-22 16:38:29 by Hunter]: [And Steve Clemons has verified that John Bolton was one of Judith Miller's regular sources on WMD issues, and that MSNBC stands by its story that Bolton gave testimony to the grand jury about the State Department memo in question. Bolton, you may recall, has previously been identified to have been involved in the Niger uranium claims that Wilson's trip helped disprove -- just to add even more gunpowder to this mix.]


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 02:55 pm
Good grief.

Re: your last two posts, I really think that part of why this has been capturing attention is because it is a relatively simple way to focus general unease. The stuff that makes people generally uneasy is way too complicated to follow and figure out (I have a higher tolerance for minutae than most, I think, and that Yellowcake link gave me a headache), but Rove/ Plame is nice and simple. There are faces, easily understood rules, ("Don't out a covert agent"), consequences.

Still have no idea how this will all shake out. Remains very interesting to watch, though.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 03:01 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
sumac wrote:
As I said, I don't play. It is a waste of my time. There are plenty of examples behind you, and you and everyone else knows of them.

Nobody believes you. Prove them wrong.

I believe her <shrugs>
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 03:05 pm
Soz,

Remember how the WH wouldn't turn over the Bolton documents?

Remember that it wasn't his attitude but the failure to turn over documents that kept him from being confirmed?

And now we see that he has testified in this case as well...

Makes ya wonder: what do the documents say?

I agree with ya that the other link is way too hard to follow. But it does provide a lot of good information.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 03:06 pm
cyclo : more than once has it happened that criminals had themselves arrested on a lesser crime because they figured the police would never look for a them in a prison. might that have happened here ? hbg
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 06:08 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Soz,

Remember how the WH wouldn't turn over the Bolton documents?

Remember that it wasn't his attitude but the failure to turn over documents that kept him from being confirmed?

And now we see that he has testified in this case as well...

Makes ya wonder: what do the documents say?

I agree with ya that the other link is way too hard to follow. But it does provide a lot of good information.

Cycloptichorn



my, my, my... how surprising that there appears to.... no scratch that...

project for the new american century. the american enterprise institute. jinsa. committee for the liberation of iraq. israel

cheney, perle, wolfowitz, bolton, libby, rumsfeld, feith, kalizad, gingrich and the list goes on...

all wrapped up together, and playing spy and moving countries and people around like pieces on a chessboard.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 06:41 pm
hbg brings up a good point; the police and investigators would not look into the prisons to seek out the criminals involved in this high-stakes game of espionage and breaking the laws of the country.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 07:18 pm
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
sumac wrote:
As I said, I don't play. It is a waste of my time. There are plenty of examples behind you, and you and everyone else knows of them.

Nobody believes you. Prove them wrong.

I believe her <shrugs>


Maybe you'll be kind enough to post some links then, since sumac won't? Or are you just believing her on principle? You'll recall you've apologized for erroneously thinking poorly of me in the past .....

(Note: I'll admit to having a less than genteel attitude in my posts directed towards Chrissee .. but in my defense, she deserved it.)
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 07:40 pm
I respectfully have to disagree with hamburger and c.i. At this level of importance, and knowing where he is, already being in jail should not be a problem. Assuming the political and moral courage to do the right thing.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 07:42 pm
Just back track to your own posts, Tico. You're a lawyer - simply parse your comments to others (not just Chrissie) with objectivity. All will become clear.
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 09:56 pm
Ticomaya wrote:


(Note: I'll admit to having a less than genteel attitude in my posts directed towards Chrissee .. but in my defense, she deserved it.)


Dude, anything you give, I can give back ten times over.

You claim to be a lawyer? What area of law?
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 09:59 pm
So counselor Tikey, based on the preponderance of the evidence, will you at long last concede that Plame is a covered agent?

BTW I do not believe you are a lawyer.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 10:04 pm
sumac wrote:
Just back track to your own posts, Tico. You're a lawyer - simply parse your comments to others (not just Chrissie) with objectivity. All will become clear.


No .. you made the claim, you ought to substantiate it.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2005 10:06 pm
Chrissee wrote:
So counselor Tikey, based on the preponderance of the evidence, will you at long last concede that Plame is a covered agent?


Wrong standard. But humor me: What "evidence" do you have that she is a "covert agent" as that term is defined in 50 USC 426?

Quote:
BTW I do not believe you are a lawyer.


I don't care.
0 Replies
 
 

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