Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

"Whats done in the dark shall come to light" check out the rove poll.......25% of americans fell the white house is not cooperating.3/4 feel Rove should be fired.3/4 feel it's very serious

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sozobe wrote:

Tico, the response to what?

There are raising questions, and then there is the manner in which they are raised.

The responses to my questions concerning Ms. Plame's status as a "covert agent."

On July 11th I asked whether it had ever been established if Plame was in fact a "covert agent"

The first person to respond was you, saying:

soz wrote:

I don't think there's any doubt that she was, in fact, a covert agent.

After wading through many, many pages of responses telling me, "of course she was a covert agent," or asking me whether I think Fitzgerald or the CIA were morons, we finally began to explore the relevant legal definition of the term.

On July 12th I asked Parados to tell me what is the set of facts that apply to Valerie Plame that cause her to meet this definition of "covert agent"

On July 14th, I restated my original question, pointing out that it was a requirement that Ms. Plame have served outside the US in the last five years

Of course I'm leaving out a lot, but I asked the questions, and I asked them in a straightforward manner. But the question remains unanswered. Parados believes it's classified information.

As I said, good luck getting a satisfactory answer to your queries.

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The interesting thing here, to me, is:

Bush and Rove et al could come clean and level with everything they know about the case, at any time, to the American people. But they won't.

Money line from Scottie's demolishing today goes to Helen Thomas:

Quote:

Q: What is his problem? Two years, and he can't call Rove in and find out what the hell is going on? I mean, why is it so difficult to find out the facts? It costs thousands, millions of dollars, two years, it tied up how many lawyers? All he's got to do is call him in.

MR. McCLELLAN: You just heard from the President. He said he doesn't know all the facts. I don't know all the facts.

Q: Why?

MR. McCLELLAN: We want to know what the facts are. Because --

Q: Why doesn't he ask him?

Why doesn't Bush know the facts? Can't he just ask the people in his admin to tell him what they know?

As Helen said, why waste so much taxpayer money?

Cycloptichorn

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Tico makes a good point. Palme has not been a covert agent for several years. The issue is fabricated nonsense.

Odd isn't it that those who most assiduously aplaud MarK Felt's continued covert leaks to the press over Watergate - and other matters - are so prominent in demanding Rove's scalp. What was the difference between their behaviors here?

Of course it will be asserted that Nixon was the apotheosis of all that is evil and any action taken against him, no matter what the motivation or legal status of the action itself - was certainly justified.

Palme invited counterattack when she proposed her husband for the investigation of the Niger matter - an evident conflict of interest, and an action quite obviously taken with a political agenda in mind - as Wilson's analysis of the Niger matter so clearly demonstrated.

Felt was obviously motivated by resentment at the restoration of normal executuve department control of the FBI after Herbert Hoover's death and the quite understandable appointment of a "controllable" outsider (L. Patrick Grey) as the new Director, instead of one of Hoover's former deputies (Felt prominently among them). Woodward and Bernstein made their careers on this matter and it is no surprise to see their enthusiastic - if a bit tortured - defense of their vindictive snitch in this matter.

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It cause Bush might be involved too! LOL

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Quote:

Skepticism about the administration's cooperation has jumped. As the initial investigation began in September 2003, nearly half the public, 47 percent, believed the White House was fully cooperating. That fell to 39 percent a few weeks later, and it's lower still, 25 percent, in this new ABC News poll.

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How high do right wingers think they can stack their Bullshit before they bury themselves

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They have announced on the radio that the Shrub has promised to fire anyone found guilty of a crime in the matter. Note the language: if Rove is definitely outed, they'll backpeddle furiously to claim that no crime has been committed.

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They're used to it by now. They can't smell it any more. LOL

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Rove got fired for the same thing while working for Bush Sr. the person he leaked to that time was...........NOVAK.But don't believe me. I'm a left wing terrorist loving traitor.Check the facts

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Amigo wrote:

Rove got fired for the same thing while working for Bush Sr. the person he leaked to that time was...........NOVAK.But don't believe me. I'm a left wing terrorist loving traitor.Check the facts

You musta missed - or forgot - This.

But don't believe me (or Timber) ... check the facts.

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That is indeed a wee bit selective, Tico.

I post this list as "pending" not in terms of "them lefties are dodging" but in terms of "nobody knows." And nobody does seem to know, for sure. Yet, anyway.

It seems likely, and reasonable hypotheses have been presented as to why (such as, it seems like that's a pillar of the whole investigation.)

At any rate, my overriding purpose is to try to identify the core issues, rather than going over the same stuff over and over again.

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Setanta wrote:

They have announced on the radio that the Shrub has promised to fire anyone found guilty of a crime in the matter. Note the language: if Rove is definitely outed, they'll backpeddle furiously to claim that no crime has been committed.

Exactly. Now who on earth, besides a complete pinhead, could hear that and still feel that Bush has any f*cking integrity at all.

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All the Bush supporters that's still trying to make a case for Rove's innocence.

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Bush has no integrity because he won't fire a staffer who has not been convircted, charged, or even accused of any crime or wrongdoing?

If this former federal prosecutor did his homework, Valerie Plame was outed a long time ago....and not by anybody in the Bush administration:

Did the CIA "Out" Valerie Plame?SPUN FROM THE STARTTHE MEDIA TELLS THE COURT: PLAME'S COVER WAS BLOWN IN THE MID-1990sLINK

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This is buried in timber's piece about Rove being fired:

timber wrote:

Rove was dismissed from Bush Sr's '92 Texas campaign

Novak, as cited by timber wrote:

Rove was indeed fired by Mosbacher from Victory '92 but continued as a national Bush-for-president operative.

Dismissed? Fired.

So he was definitely dismissed/ fired, but it's not definite whether it was for leaking or not.

Where is the evidence that it wasn't because of a leak, beyond timber and Novak (who is certainly just as biased in all of this as the discounted blogs) saying so?

Why WAS he fired?

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Foxfyre wrote:

Bush has no integrity because he won't fire a staffer who has not been convircted, charged, or even accused of any crime or wrongdoing?

No, he has no integrity because he specifically changed the wording of his very strongly worded promise so that he could weasel his way out of having to fire that scumbag.

But thanks for answering my question.

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Tico,I could spend 8 hours checking the your "facts" and no matter what I came up with you would come back with a whole knew pile of disinformation for me to sift through, nothanks.But I do agree the democrats are calling for Rove to be fired to soon but it's hard to play fair with someone when their always cheating

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I'm re-reading the supposedly debunk-dunk Novak paragraphs (if not them, what does debunk this one?), and they really are a pretty weak support of the case.

Quote:

Unfortunately, I did not escape Suskind's article, which includes these sentences: "Sources close to the former president say Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush presidential campaign after he planted a negative story with columnist Robert Novak about dissatisfaction with campaign fund-raising chief and Bush loyalist Robert Mosbacher Jr. It was smoked out, and he was summarily ousted." I was called by no fact-checker, who would have learned of multiple errors.

Suskind has confused former Secretary of Commerce Robert Mosbacher Sr., Bush's 1992 chief fund-raiser, with his son Rob, who headed the Bush campaign in Texas (Victory '92). Criticism of the younger Mosbacher, a frequent unsuccessful candidate in Texas, was not "planted" with me by Rove but was passed to me by a Bush aide whom I interviewed. Rove was indeed fired by Mosbacher from Victory '92 but continued as a national Bush-for-president operative.

The main objection seems to be "planted." That could be semantics. It does not at all discount the possibility that Rove arranged for the information to get to Novak. And especially, since it happened -- the information got to Novak -- and Rove was fired, it certainly looks like Mosbacher at least thought that Rove is the one who planted the negative story... and fired him for it.

In which case "Rove was fired for planting a negative story..." is entirely true -- whether Rove did or didn't do the planting.

Again, I'm open to other evidence of why he was, in fact, fired, but timber's oft-referenced defense has a lot of holes in it.

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Regarding Texas 1992, I am sure that Molly Ivins, a lot of Texas journalists, and most political guns for hire know the answer to Rove's past. Whether or not it is in print anyplace is another question.

But ya gotta love Helen Thomas for cutting to the quick.

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Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

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