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Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

 
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 06:13 pm
But then again, you don't need to discuss Rove in 1992 to discuss him in the present and more recent past.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 06:23 pm
If you thought Matt Cooper's use of "double super secret background" had the whiff of Animal House, you were right Smile

Even journalists can have a sense of humor.

Quote:
DC TURNS 'ANIMAL HOUSE': TIME REPORTER USED MOVIE JOKE IN ROVE EMAIL
Sun Jul 17 2005 18:48:33 ET

CNNWASHPOST HOWARD KURTZ: A lot of people have picked up on your description in the memos to your bureau chief of that conversation -- "It was on double super secret background." What did that mean?

TIME MATT COOPER: Well, Howie, I can now reveal that it was a joke. Karl Rove, when we had the conversation, wanted it to be on deep background, which I took to mean I could use the material but not quote it directly, and certainly not attribute it, that I had to protect the identity of my source. When I wrote the note to my bureau chief, just moments after the conversation with Rove, in a slightly playful way, I echoed the line in the movie "Animal House," where John Belushi's wild fraternity is put on double secret probation. So it was a little bit of humor.



http://drudgereport.com/flash8.htm
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 07:30 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Tico makes a good point. Palme has not been a covert agent for several years. The issue is fabricated nonsense.

Odd isn't it that those who most assiduously aplaud MarK Felt's continued covert leaks to the press over Watergate - and other matters - are so prominent in demanding Rove's scalp. What was the difference between their behaviors here?

Of course it will be asserted that Nixon was the apotheosis of all that is evil and any action taken against him, no matter what the motivation or legal status of the action itself - was certainly justified.

Palme invited counterattack when she proposed her husband for the investigation of the Niger matter - an evident conflict of interest, and an action quite obviously taken with a political agenda in mind - as Wilson's analysis of the Niger matter so clearly demonstrated.

Felt was obviously motivated by resentment at the restoration of normal executuve department control of the FBI after Herbert Hoover's death and the quite understandable appointment of a "controllable" outsider (L. Patrick Grey) as the new Director, instead of one of Hoover's former deputies (Felt prominently among them). Woodward and Bernstein made their careers on this matter and it is no surprise to see their enthusiastic - if a bit tortured - defense of their vindictive snitch in this matter.


jesus, george. Is it at all possible that you might cast your eyes above the partisan wall you have nailed up around you? What is it with you guys and party loyalty? It would be difficult to come up with a better means of compromising your own intellect than this 'truth established by membership' thing you have going on here.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 07:49 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Bush has no integrity because he won't fire a staffer who has not been convircted, charged, or even accused of any crime or wrongdoing?

If this former federal prosecutor did his homework, Valerie Plame was outed a long time ago....and not by anybody in the Bush administration:

Did the CIA "Out" Valerie Plame?
What the mainstream media tells the court ... but won't tell you.

With each passing day, the manufactured "scandal" over the publication of Valerie Plame's relationship with the CIA establishes new depths of mainstream-media hypocrisy. A highly capable special prosecutor is probing the underlying facts, and it is appropriate to withhold legal judgments until he completes the investigation over which speculation runs so rampant. But it is not too early to assess the performance of the press. It's been appalling.

Is that hyperbole? You be the judge. Have you heard that the CIA is actually the source responsible for exposing Plame's covert status? Not Karl Rove, not Bob Novak, not the sinister administration cabal du jour of Fourth Estate fantasy, but the CIA itself? Had you heard that Plame's cover has actually been blown for a decade ?- i.e., since about seven years before Novak ever wrote a syllable about her? Had you heard not only that no crime was committed in the communication of information between Bush administration officials and Novak, but that no crime could have been committed because the governing law gives a person a complete defense if an agent's status has already been compromised by the government?

No, you say, you hadn't heard any of that. You heard that this was the crime of the century. A sort of Robert-Hanssen-meets-Watergate in which Rove is already cooked and we're all just waiting for the other shoe ?- or shoes ?- to drop on the den of corruption we know as the Bush administration. That, after all, is the inescapable impression from all the media coverage. So who is saying different?

The organized media, that's who. How come you haven't heard? Because they've decided not to tell you. Because they say one thing ?- one dark, transparently partisan thing ?- when they're talking to you in their news coverage, but they say something completely different when they think you're not listening.

You see, if you really want to know what the media think of the Plame case ?- if you want to discover what a comparative trifle they actually believe it to be ?- you need to close the paper and turn off the TV. You need, instead, to have a peek at what they write when they're talking to a court. It's a mind-bendingly different tale.

SPUN FROM THE START
My colleague Cliff May has already demonstrated the bankruptcy of the narrative the media relentlessly spouts for Bush-bashing public consumption: to wit, that Valerie Wilson, nee Plame, was identified as a covert CIA agent by the columnist Robert Novak, to whom she was compromised by an administration official. In fact, it appears Plame was first outed to the general public as a result of a consciously loaded and slyly hypothetical piece by the journalist David Corn. Corn's source appears to have been none other than Plame's own husband, former ambassador and current Democratic-party operative Joseph Wilson ?- that same pillar of national security rectitude whose notion of discretion, upon being dispatched by the CIA for a sensitive mission to Niger, was to write a highly public op-ed about his trip in the New York Times. This isn't news to the media; they have simply chosen not to report it.

The hypocrisy, though, only starts there. It turns out that the media believe Plame was outed long before either Novak or Corn took pen to paper. And not by an ambiguous confirmation from Rove or a nod-and-a-wink from Ambassador Hubby. No, the media think Plame was previously compromised by a disclosure from the intelligence community itself ?- although it may be questionable whether there was anything of her covert status left to salvage at that point, for reasons that will become clear momentarily.

This CIA disclosure, moreover, is said to have been made not to Americans at large but to Fidel Castro's anti-American regime in Cuba, whose palpable incentive would have been to "compromise[] every operation, every relationship, every network with which [Plame] had been associated in her entire career" ?- to borrow from the diatribe in which Wilson risibly compared his wife's straits to the national security catastrophes wrought by Aldrich Ames and Kim Philby.


THE MEDIA GOES TO COURT ... AND SINGS A DIFFERENT TUNE
Just four months ago, 36 news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington. At the time, Bush-bashing was (no doubt reluctantly) confined to an unusual backseat. The press had no choice ?- it was time to close ranks around two of its own, namely, the Times's Judith Miller and Time's Matthew Cooper, who were threatened with jail for defying grand jury subpoenas from the special prosecutor.

The media's brief, fairly short and extremely illuminating, is available here. The Times, which is currently spearheading the campaign against Rove and the Bush administration, encouraged its submission. It was joined by a "who's who" of the current Plame stokers, including ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, AP, Newsweek, Reuters America, the Washington Post, the Tribune Company (which publishes the Los Angeles Times and the Baltimore Sun, among other papers), and the White House Correspondents (the organization which represents the White House press corps in its dealings with the executive branch).

The thrust of the brief was that reporters should not be held in contempt or forced to reveal their sources in the Plame investigation. Why? Because, the media organizations confidently asserted, no crime had been committed. Now, that is stunning enough given the baleful shroud the press has consciously cast over this story. Even more remarkable, though, were the key details these self-styled guardians of the public's right to know stressed as being of the utmost importance for the court to grasp ?- details those same guardians have assiduously suppressed from the coverage actually presented to the public.

Though you would not know it from watching the news, you learn from reading the news agencies' brief that the 1982 law prohibiting disclosure of undercover agents' identities explicitly sets forth a complete defense to this crime. It is contained in Section 422 (of Title 50, U.S. Code), and it provides that an accused leaker is in the clear if, sometime before the leak, "the United States ha[s] publicly acknowledged or revealed" the covert agent's "intelligence relationship to the United States[.]"

As it happens, the media organizations informed the court that long before the Novak revelation (which, as noted above, did not disclose Plame's classified relationship with the CIA), Plame's cover was blown not once but twice. The media based this contention on reporting by the indefatigable Bill Gertz ?- an old-school, "let's find out what really happened" kind of journalist. Gertz's relevant article, published a year ago in the Washington Times, can be found here.

THE MEDIA TELLS THE COURT: PLAME'S COVER WAS BLOWN IN THE MID-1990s
As the media alleged to the judges (in Footnote 7, page 8, of their brief), Plame's identity as an undercover CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s by a spy in Moscow. Of course, the press and its attorneys were smart enough not to argue that such a disclosure would trigger the defense prescribed in Section 422 because it was evidently made by a foreign-intelligence operative, not by a U.S. agency as the statute literally requires.

But neither did they mention the incident idly. For if, as he has famously suggested, President Bush has peered into the soul of Vladimir Putin, what he has no doubt seen is the thriving spirit of the KGB, of which the Russian president was a hardcore agent. The Kremlin still spies on the United States. It remains in the business of compromising U.S. intelligence operations.

Thus, the media's purpose in highlighting this incident is blatant: If Plame was outed to the former Soviet Union a decade ago, there can have been little, if anything, left of actual intelligence value in her "every operation, every relationship, every network" by the time anyone spoke with Novak (or, of course, Corn).


THE CIA OUTS PLAME TO FIDEL CASTRO
Of greater moment to the criminal investigation is the second disclosure urged by the media organizations on the court. They don't place a precise date on this one, but inform the judges that it was "more recent" than the Russian outing but "prior to Novak's publication."

And it is priceless. The press informs the judges that the CIA itself "inadvertently" compromised Plame by not taking appropriate measures to safeguard classified documents that the Agency routed to the Swiss embassy in Havana. In the Washington Times article ?- you remember, the one the press hypes when it reports to the federal court but not when it reports to consumers of its news coverage ?- Gertz elaborates that "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."

Thus, the same media now stampeding on Rove has told a federal court that, to the contrary, they believe the CIA itself blew Plame's cover before Rove or anyone else in the Bush administration ever spoke to Novak about her. Of course, they don't contend the CIA did it on purpose or with malice. But neither did Rove ?- who, unlike the CIA, appears neither to have known about nor disclosed Plame's classified status. Yet, although the Times and its cohort have a bull's eye on Rove's back, they are breathtakingly silent about an apparent CIA embarrassment ?- one that seems to be just the type of juicy story they routinely covet.


A COMPLETE DEFENSE?
The defense in Section 422 requires that the revelation by the United States have been done "publicly." At least one U.S. official who spoke to Gertz speculated that because the Havana snafu was not "publicized" ?- i.e., because the classified information about Plame was mistakenly communicated to Cuba rather than broadcast to the general public ?- it would not available as a defense to whomever spoke with Novak. But that seems clearly wrong.

First, the theory under which the media have gleefully pursued Rove, among other Bush officials, holds that if a disclosure offense was committed here it was complete at the moment the leak was made to Novak. Whether Novak then proceeded to report the leak to the general public is beside the point ?- the violation supposedly lies in identifying Plame to Novak. (Indeed, it has frequently been observed that Judy Miller of the Times is in contempt for protecting one or more sources even though she never wrote an article about Plame.)

Perhaps more significantly, the whole point of discouraging public disclosure of covert agents is to prevent America's enemies from degrading our national security. It is not, after all, the public we are worried about. Rather, it is the likes of Fidel Castro and his regime who pose a threat to Valerie Plame and her network of U.S. intelligence relationships. The government must still be said to have "publicized" the classified relationship ?- i.e., to have blown the cover of an intelligence agent ?- if it leaves out the middleman by communicating directly with an enemy government rather than indirectly through a media outlet.


LINGERING QUESTIONS
All this raises several readily apparent questions. We know that at the time of the Novak and Corn articles, Plame was not serving as an intelligence agent outside the United States. Instead, she had for years been working, for all to see, at CIA headquarters in Langley. Did her assignment to headquarters have anything to do with her effectiveness as a covert agent having already been nullified by disclosure to the Russians and the Cubans ?- and to whomever else the Russians and Cubans could be expected to tell if they thought it harmful to American interests or advantageous to their own?

If Plame's cover was blown, as Gertz reports, how much did Plame know about that? It's likely that she would have been fully apprised ?- after all, as we have been told repeatedly in recent weeks, the personal security of a covert agent and her family can be a major concern when secrecy is pierced. Assuming she knew, did her husband, Wilson, also know? At the time he was ludicrously comparing the Novak article to the Ames and Philby debacles, did he actually have reason to believe his wife had been compromised years earlier?

And could the possibility that Plame's cover has long been blown explain why the CIA was unconcerned about assigning a one-time covert agent to a job that had her walking in and out of CIA headquarters every day? Could it explain why the Wilsons were sufficiently indiscrete to pose in Vanity Fair, and, indeed, to permit Joseph Wilson to pen a highly public op-ed regarding a sensitive mission to which his wife ?- the covert agent ?- energetically advocated his assignment? Did they fail to take commonsense precautions because they knew there really was nothing left to protect?

We'd probably know the answers to these and other questions by now if the media had given a tenth of the effort spent manufacturing a scandal to reporting professionally on the underlying facts. And if they deigned to share with their readers and viewers all the news that's fit to print ... in a brief to a federal court.

?- Andrew C. McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor, is a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
LINK



Wow! Amazing revelation there.

Shall we look at it more closely?

The article calls attention to a brief authored by a right wing lawyer who threw in everything she could troll up from the right wing media as an amicus brief in the case of miller refusing to tell what she knew to the grand jury. (I read the Brief) linked below. Several media organizations paid the lawyers to file the brief. Their description ruins about a dozen pages.

http://www.bakerlaw.com/files/tbl_s10News/FileUpload44/10159/Amici%20Brief%20032305%20(Final).PDF

Two things, one the attack on the press for playing both sides against the middle by investigating the charges while filing court documents that undermine the proposition that a law was broken, and thus it isn't really news at all, thus any mention of it as evidence of a vast left wing conspiracy.

That is slick rendering of the situation, where the legal dept is saying something is not while the media arms say there is something there that is news...and that is a conspiracy of the liberal media.


However, the brief, along with its reasoning was rejected by the Supreme Court as evidence of the illegitimacy of the Grand Jury insisting that miller divulge her sources. The Court refused even to hear the case.

That means that the Court did not believe the "evidence" in the brief stating that Plame had been outed before under the relevant statutes.

The Court's ruling denies that the evidence in footnote # 7, detailing Gertz's article and comments on the soviets and later the CIA having outed Plame rose to the level of denying the Grand Jury of its legitimacy.

In other words, the Supreme Court says that Fitzgerald?'s grand Jury is basing its legitimacy upon the likelihood that a law has been broken. It also means that the Supreme Court has decided that Plame was outed by Novak's column and her "outing" by him is germane to the statutes.

To the source

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040722-115439-4033r.htm
Quote:
officials said the disclosure that Mrs. Plame's cover was blown before the news column undermines the prosecution of the government official who might have revealed the name, officials said.

"The law says that to be covered by the act the intelligence community has to take steps to affirmatively protect someone's cover," one official said. "In this case, the CIA failed to do that."

A second official, however, said the compromises before the news column were not publicized and thus should not affect the investigation of the Plame matter.


Obviously, the Supreme Court sided with official number two.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 07:54 pm
Kuvasz posted without calling anyone stupid or retarded.

We're making progress Smile
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:01 pm
JustWonders wrote:
Kuvasz posted without calling anyone stupid or retarded.

We're making progress Smile


well, you and lash haven't posted much lately now, have you?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:05 pm
kuvasz wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
Kuvasz posted without calling anyone stupid or retarded.

We're making progress Smile


well, you and lash haven't posted much lately now, have you?


So, if Lash, myself, Tico, Timber, Foxfyre, etc. don't agree with your points of view or your evaluations, we're stupid or retarded?

I assure you, speaking only for myself, I breathlessly await your highly intelligent, non-partisan, intellectual response in order to stimulate meaningful discussion.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:06 pm
I don't think he'd characterize Timber that way . . .
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:12 pm
True.

According to Kuvasz, Timber just has a "weak and pitiful mind".

Pretty much the way he feels about anyone who dares disagree with him, it seems.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:15 pm
Yeah, from one who uses Joe Wilson as a source.

But, kuvasz is prolific with the cut and paste. I think he holds the record for the longest...and the most stupid and retarded.

He's made a niche for himself.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:19 pm
Now, now...do I have to separate you kiddies? PLAY NICE!
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:20 pm
Ya rotten bastards....
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:21 pm
blatham wrote:
jesus, george. Is it at all possible that you might cast your eyes above the partisan wall you have nailed up around you? What is it with you guys and party loyalty? It would be difficult to come up with a better means of compromising your own intellect than this 'truth established by membership' thing you have going on here.


Odd that I see precisely the same selective blindness that you wrongfully attribute to me in your position and that of the 'progressive' claques here. My intellect is unsullied.

That Felt's behavior was leagally equivalent (though on a much larger scale and involving a clear conspiracy) to that attributed to Rove is quite obvious, as is the hypocrisy of the rather predictable chorus of the loonie left here.

Given their unwavering conviction that Nixon was the personification of all that is evil and that any action taken to bring him down was somehow justified, one can imagine the source of their blindness - however it is blindness nonetheless.

I do hope you are well and content. The Bay Area is cool and refreshing. Getting familiar again with old haunts and delights. Spent a delightful weekend by the Russian River under the redwoods - also a good way to avoid chores during the final stages of move-in.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:25 pm
kickycan wrote:
Ya rotten bastards....


Laughing
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:53 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
blatham wrote:
jesus, george. Is it at all possible that you might cast your eyes above the partisan wall you have nailed up around you? What is it with you guys and party loyalty? It would be difficult to come up with a better means of compromising your own intellect than this 'truth established by membership' thing you have going on here.


Odd that I see precisely the same selective blindness that you wrongfully attribute to me in your position and that of the 'progressive' claques here. My intellect is unsullied.

That Felt's behavior was leagally equivalent (though on a much larger scale and involving a clear conspiracy) to that attributed to Rove is quite obvious, as is the hypocrisy of the rather predictable chorus of the loonie left here.

Given their unwavering conviction that Nixon was the personification of all that is evil and that any action taken to bring him down was somehow justified, one can imagine the source of their blindness - however it is blindness nonetheless.

I do hope you are well and content. The Bay Area is cool and refreshing. Getting familiar again with old haunts and delights. Spent a delightful weekend by the Russian River under the redwoods - also a good way to avoid chores during the final stages of move-in.


george,

How is it legally equivalent? Felt did not reveal classified information concerning national security which is what Rove is alleged to have done.
Felt never outed an undercover CIA agent. There is quite a difference legally and otherwise between revealing classified information and revealing information about an ongoing investigation. I can't think of any information that Felt ever revealed that came close to being classified.

On the basis of what they revealed. Felt revealed evidence of a conspiracy in the govt. Wilson is not the govt. He worked for it but it isn't really possible to claim that he did anything wrong in his govt capacity that needed to be revealed nor can Wilson be considered a govt conspiracy.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:59 pm
Amigo wrote:
Tico,I could spend 8 hours checking the your "facts" and no matter what I came up with you would come back a whole knew pile of disinformation for me to sift through, nothanks.But I do agree the democrats are calling for Rove to be fired to soon but it's hard to play fair someone when their always cheating


you guys are still not getting what's going on with tico...

he's a lawyer... he's throwing out every single piece of minutiae that he can lay his hands on.

so your job, is to debunk it, provide opposing evidence and prove him wrong.

tico is a republican, but he isn't stupid. that much i'm sure of. and, he digs pink floyd, so he can't be all bad. bet he even likes animals.

as far as the dems go... jeez, they just don't know when to shut up and enjoy the ride. :wink:
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 09:04 pm
Agreed, DTOM. And truly, I appreciate it, as it helps me figure out where the weaknesses are and what to look for.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 09:05 pm
Lest it need saying, while there is much that appeals about the idea of Rove getting thrown into jail and a conspiracy unmasked, I'm more interested in finding out what really happened, whatever that may be.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 09:09 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
That Felt's behavior was leagally equivalent (though on a much larger scale and involving a clear conspiracy) to that attributed to Rove is quite obvious,


hiya george. where ya been ?? thanzx for kicking in here. now down to business. Laughing

mark felt has nothing to do with this. either does nixon. we all have to stop diverting ourselves.

now, a side question. i got an email saying that, in august, mars is going to be closer to earth than it has been in something like 65,000 years. it will be nearly as visable as the full moon. do you know anything about this ? is it true ? should i make time in my busy schedule ???
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 09:13 pm
(Not true!)
0 Replies
 
 

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