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Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

 
 
pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:45 pm
Hello parados.

I wouldn't give much thought about Tico's credential argument. Fact of the matter is that he was hired by the CIA. Fact of the matter is that his findings as now proved time and time again, were also right (which basically is still a torn on the Bush side given their insistence that Saddam had an active nuclear program).

The WH tried to shove under the rug what they knew were facts in favour of forgeries they knew were so. And in order to support to spurious argument decided as any good con people would to attack the credibility of others while tier's was more than tainted. End of story and the end of close to 1800 American lives on a false pretence.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:50 pm
Did he actually ever submit a report? Does anyone have a link to it?
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pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:58 pm
Let's go to the right side of the press, compliments of Bloomberg:

Wilson's Iraq Assertions Hold Up Under Fire From Rove Backers


Excerpts:

Quote:
July 14 (Bloomberg) -- Two-year old assertions by former ambassador Joseph Wilson regarding Iraq and uranium, which lie at the heart of the controversy over who at the White House identified a covert U.S. operative, have held up in the face of attacks by supporters of presidential adviser Karl Rove.

The main points of Wilson's article have largely been substantiated by a Senate committee as well as U.S. and United Nations weapons inspectors. A day after Wilson's piece was published, the White House acknowledged that a claim Bush made in his January 2003 state of the union address that Iraq tried to buy "significant quantities of uranium from Africa"' could not be verified and shouldn't have been included in the speech.

Republicans are attempting to defend Rove by discrediting Wilson, saying the former ambassador misled the public about why he was sent to Niger and what he found there.

Bush supporters such as former House Speaker Newt Gingrich contend that Wilson lied in claiming that Vice President Dick Cheney dispatched him on the mission to Niger. That echoes a Republican National Committee talking-points memo sent to party officials.

Wilson never said that Cheney sent him, only that the vice president's office had questions about an intelligence report that referred to the sale of uranium yellowcake to Iraq from Niger. Wilson, in his New York Times article, said CIA officials were informed of Cheney's questions.

"The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office," Wilson wrote.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a8dab8rni_Do&refer=us
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:02 pm
Here's a nice capsule by Fact Check.

Fact Check/16 Words
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:07 pm
"AWOL" = Absent without leave. Yes, Bush was AWOL.
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pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:07 pm
Hello McG.

There was actually no written report.

But your question raises the following need: let's revisit the article that got him and his wife all the flack they got:

Integral text:

Quote:
Published on Sunday, July 6, 2003 by the New York Times
What I Didn't Find in Africa
by Joseph C. Wilson 4th

Did the Bush administration manipulate intelligence about Saddam Hussein's weapons programs to justify an invasion of Iraq?

Based on my experience with the administration in the months leading up to the war, I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

For 23 years, from 1976 to 1998, I was a career foreign service officer and ambassador. In 1990, as chargé d'affaires in Baghdad, I was the last American diplomat to meet with Saddam Hussein. (I was also a forceful advocate for his removal from Kuwait.) After Iraq, I was President George H. W. Bush's ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe; under President Bill Clinton, I helped direct Africa policy for the National Security Council.

It was my experience in Africa that led me to play a small role in the effort to verify information about Africa's suspected link to Iraq's nonconventional weapons programs. Those news stories about that unnamed former envoy who went to Niger? That's me.

In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake ?- a form of lightly processed ore ?- by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990's. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office.

After consulting with the State Department's African Affairs Bureau (and through it with Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick, the United States ambassador to Niger), I agreed to make the trip. The mission I undertook was discreet but by no means secret. While the C.I.A. paid my expenses (my time was offered pro bono), I made it abundantly clear to everyone I met that I was acting on behalf of the United States government.

In late February 2002, I arrived in Niger's capital, Niamey, where I had been a diplomat in the mid-70's and visited as a National Security Council official in the late 90's. The city was much as I remembered it. Seasonal winds had clogged the air with dust and sand. Through the haze, I could see camel caravans crossing the Niger River (over the John F. Kennedy bridge), the setting sun behind them. Most people had wrapped scarves around their faces to protect against the grit, leaving only their eyes visible.

The next morning, I met with Ambassador Owens-Kirkpatrick at the embassy. For reasons that are understandable, the embassy staff has always kept a close eye on Niger's uranium business. I was not surprised, then, when the ambassador told me that she knew about the allegations of uranium sales to Iraq ?- and that she felt she had already debunked them in her reports to Washington. Nevertheless, she and I agreed that my time would be best spent interviewing people who had been in government when the deal supposedly took place, which was before her arrival.

I spent the next eight days drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens of people: current government officials, former government officials, people associated with the country's uranium business. It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place.

Given the structure of the consortiums that operated the mines, it would be exceedingly difficult for Niger to transfer uranium to Iraq. Niger's uranium business consists of two mines, Somair and Cominak, which are run by French, Spanish, Japanese, German and Nigerian interests. If the government wanted to remove uranium from a mine, it would have to notify the consortium, which in turn is strictly monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Moreover, because the two mines are closely regulated, quasi-governmental entities, selling uranium would require the approval of the minister of mines, the prime minister and probably the president. In short, there's simply too much oversight over too small an industry for a sale to have transpired.

(As for the actual memorandum, I never saw it. But news accounts have pointed out that the documents had glaring errors ?- they were signed, for example, by officials who were no longer in government ?- and were probably forged. And then there's the fact that Niger formally denied the charges.)

Before I left Niger, I briefed the ambassador on my findings, which were consistent with her own. I also shared my conclusions with members of her staff. In early March, I arrived in Washington and promptly provided a detailed briefing to the C.I.A. I later shared my conclusions with the State Department African Affairs Bureau. There was nothing secret or earth-shattering in my report, just as there was nothing secret about my trip.

Though I did not file a written report, there should be at least four documents in United States government archives confirming my mission. The documents should include the ambassador's report of my debriefing in Niamey, a separate report written by the embassy staff, a C.I.A. report summing up my trip, and a specific answer from the agency to the office of the vice president (this may have been delivered orally). While I have not seen any of these reports, I have spent enough time in government to know that this is standard operating procedure.

I thought the Niger matter was settled and went back to my life. (I did take part in the Iraq debate, arguing that a strict containment regime backed by the threat of force was preferable to an invasion.) In September 2002, however, Niger re-emerged. The British government published a "white paper" asserting that Saddam Hussein and his unconventional arms posed an immediate danger. As evidence, the report cited Iraq's attempts to purchase uranium from an African country.
Then, in January, President Bush, citing the British dossier, repeated the charges about Iraqi efforts to buy uranium from Africa.

The next day, I reminded a friend at the State Department of my trip and suggested that if the president had been referring to Niger, then his conclusion was not borne out by the facts as I understood them. He replied that perhaps the president was speaking about one of the other three African countries that produce uranium: Gabon, South Africa or Namibia. At the time, I accepted the explanation. I didn't know that in December, a month before the president's address, the State Department had published a fact sheet that mentioned the Niger case.

Those are the facts surrounding my efforts. The vice president's office asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer. I did so, and I have every confidence that the answer I provided was circulated to the appropriate officials within our government.

The question now is how that answer was or was not used by our political leadership. If my information was deemed inaccurate, I understand (though I would be very interested to know why). If, however, the information was ignored because it did not fit certain preconceptions about Iraq, then a legitimate argument can be made that we went to war under false pretenses. (It's worth remembering that in his March "Meet the Press" appearance, Mr. Cheney said that Saddam Hussein was "trying once again to produce nuclear weapons.") At a minimum, Congress, which authorized the use of military force at the president's behest, should want to know if the assertions about Iraq were warranted.

I was convinced before the war that the threat of weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Saddam Hussein required a vigorous and sustained international response to disarm him. Iraq possessed and had used chemical weapons; it had an active biological weapons program and quite possibly a nuclear research program ?- all of which were in violation of United Nations resolutions. Having encountered Mr. Hussein and his thugs in the run-up to the Persian Gulf war of 1991, I was only too aware of the dangers he posed.

But were these dangers the same ones the administration told us about? We have to find out. America's foreign policy depends on the sanctity of its information. For this reason, questioning the selective use of intelligence to justify the war in Iraq is neither idle sniping nor "revisionist history," as Mr. Bush has suggested. The act of war is the last option of a democracy, taken when there is a grave threat to our national security. More than 200 American soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq already. We have a duty to ensure that their sacrifice came for the right reasons.
[/b]


Joseph C. Wilson 4th, United States ambassador to Gabon from 1992 to 1995, is an international business consultant.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:08 pm
The question is not whether Bush was AWOL, but if he was a "deserter."
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:09 pm
On AWOL Bush. http://www.awolbush.com/
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:15 pm
sozobe wrote:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1456199#1456199

The part I had in mind:

Quote:
Rove and other White House officials described to the FBI what sources characterized as an aggressive campaign to discredit Wilson through the leaking and disseminating of derogatory information regarding him and his wife to the press, utilizing proxies such as conservative interest groups and the Republican National Committee to achieve those ends, and distributing talking points to allies of the administration on Capitol Hill and elsewhere. Rove is said to have named at least six other administration officials who were involved in the effort to discredit Wilson.


Kuvasz' post is long, but has good stuff about the "substantive role" (or lack thereof), as well.


Not exactly an admission of an intent to smear. It appears to suggest that is how "sources" would characterize what was done.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:16 pm
pngirouard wrote:
Let's not play the game of the right here about Wilson's credential, ... He literally saved lives during Desert Storm as acting ambassador to Iraq ....


I understand that's where he "made his bones."
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:16 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Did he actually ever submit a report? Does anyone have a link to it?


pngirouard posted it. It was called "What I Didn't Find in Africa," and was published on Sunday, July 6, 2003, in the New York Times. I suppose the CIA got their money's worth.
0 Replies
 
pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:20 pm
Hello Cicerone.

While the awol story was much of an item, it was a useless one for Bush wasn't awol. He wasn't absent without leave or permission. It was worse: he used everything he knew to be hidden in plain site, at tax payer's expense. I say (and I served in Vietnam not as a draftee) that what he was: a political coward wanting some military service on his record but no exposure whatsoever to anything warlike. I guess his father must still to this day be ashamed of him given his personal military record although as any dad he would never admit it.

I would respect him more had he just did what most senior members in his administration did: deferment. Instead we paid quite a lot of money for him to become a pilot. And it was only but a waste of money for he made sure to never fly again and stay in hiding. Quite the expert con man at an early age. At the time he was called "Texas Soufflé". A lot of air. Too bad Texas had to be driven in this matter, they surely didn't deserve that.
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pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:23 pm
Tico:

Not too sure exactly about the meaning of your inference.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:28 pm
pngirouard wrote:
Tico:

Not too sure exactly about the meaning of your inference.


Don't worry about it ... it's not important.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:29 pm
pngirouard wrote:
Hello Cicerone.

While the awol story was much of an item, it was a useless one for Bush wasn't awol. He wasn't absent without leave or permission. It was worse: he used everything he knew to be hidden in plain site, at tax payer's expense. I say (and I served in Vietnam not as a draftee) that what he was: a political coward wanting some military service on his record but no exposure whatsoever to anything warlike. I guess his father must still to this day be ashamed of him given his personal military record although as any dad he would never admit it.

I would respect him more had he just did what most senior members in his administration did: deferment. Instead we paid quite a lot of money for him to become a pilot. And it was only but a waste of money for he made sure to never fly again and stay in hiding. Quite the expert con man at an early age. At the time he was called "Texas Soufflé". A lot of air. Too bad Texas had to be driven in this matter, they surely didn't deserve that.


The Report of the Independent Review Panel, issued in response to the CBS 60 Minutes segment and investigating the forged documents used in that episode, sees it quite differently. On p.130 of that report, it clearly states that not only did President Bush volunteer for Vietnam, they have confirmed that Ms. Mapes had clear evidence of that information prior to airing the episode.

A lot of the other baloney you just recited is also debunked, but I've posted it so many times, I'm exhausted.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:30 pm
png: were you asking about the "bones" reference?
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pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:38 pm
Hello JW.

And in what capacity would have Bush volunteered given his absence of fitness report? Foot soldier? He couldn't fly! He never explained why he didn't show up (some argue he was probably too much on the party wagon given his colourful past but I wouldn't know or care).

Give me a break. Bush was bidding his time in hiding as many WASP were in America. If one thing came out of all the flack (and that is far beyond the CBS scandal) is that no one can account for him for a long period of time except for the political activities he then carried out and which are well documented.

He never volunteered for nothing or his volunteerism was that of a coward who knew damn well he would never be called.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:40 pm
So, I take it you didn't read the report.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:40 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Did he actually ever submit a report? Does anyone have a link to it?


pngirouard posted it. It was called "What I Didn't Find in Africa," and was published on Sunday, July 6, 2003, in the New York Times. I suppose the CIA got their money's worth.


No, I mean the actual report on what he found or didn't find in Niger. The one Cheney was supposed to have read.
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pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 02:41 pm
Tico:


Just jesting:

Are we going to go to the Skull & Bones now?
0 Replies
 
 

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