0
   

Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:12 pm
Ugh, can anyone help me? It was something from maybe parados or maybe Kuvasz but maybe not, about what Rove himself said to the FBI, I think... ooh, FBI, maybe that'll work...
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:16 pm
sozobe wrote:
revel, can you point that out? I just looked for it and couldn't turn it up. (Either Novak's website or your post where you refer to it.)


My post was two posts below timerberland original post. Anyway, I went back and reread it and I really didn't add anything new timberland's post.

But just in case I overlooked something (which unfortunately is entirely possible) I will post the relevant section of novak column with the link to his website.

Quote:
Unfortunately, I did not escape Suskind's article, which includes these sentences: "Sources close to the former president say Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush presidential campaign after he planted a negative story with columnist Robert Novak about dissatisfaction with campaign fund-raising chief and Bush loyalist Robert Mosbacher Jr. It was smoked out, and he was summarily ousted." I was called by no fact-checker, who would have learned of multiple errors.

Suskind has confused former Secretary of Commerce Robert Mosbacher Sr., Bush's 1992 chief fund-raiser, with his son Rob, who headed the Bush campaign in Texas (Victory '92). Criticism of the younger Mosbacher, a frequent unsuccessful candidate in Texas, was not "planted" with me by Rove but was passed to me by a Bush aide whom I interviewed. Rove was indeed fired by Mosbacher from Victory '92 but continued as a national Bush-for-president operative.


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20021205.shtml
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:17 pm
sozobe wrote:
Wilson was qualified.


What were his qualifications to lead an investigation? Did he have any background in conducting such investigations? Any prior history of doing that prior to his wife suggesting his name? He drank tea and met with some folks at the embassy ... that was his investigation?. He's not an investigator.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:17 pm
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1456199#1456199

The part I had in mind:

Quote:
Rove and other White House officials described to the FBI what sources characterized as an aggressive campaign to discredit Wilson through the leaking and disseminating of derogatory information regarding him and his wife to the press, utilizing proxies such as conservative interest groups and the Republican National Committee to achieve those ends, and distributing talking points to allies of the administration on Capitol Hill and elsewhere. Rove is said to have named at least six other administration officials who were involved in the effort to discredit Wilson.


Kuvasz' post is long, but has good stuff about the "substantive role" (or lack thereof), as well.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:20 pm
Which "original post" of timber's, revel? He's posted here quite a bit.

Anyway, that's good info. Certainly establishes that Novak himself has said that Rove was fired.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:20 pm
It's come up a couple of times that Plame "authorized" her husband to go. We know that is false. She simply offered his name as a qualified person. No big deal. If the president needed entertainment for an event, and I was the event planner, I would certainly offer up Bear. He can certainly be entertaining.

Now, it has also come up that Wilson claimed that Cheney requested that he go, and that Rove was simply stopping Cooper from printing something false when he mentioned it was actually Plame that asked him to go.

But...

Quote:
Media repeated false GOP talking point on authorization for Wilson trip to Niger

Numerous media figures have repeated, or failed to question, a Republican National Committee (RNC) talking point asserting that former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV claimed that Vice President Dick Cheney "sent him" on a 2002 CIA mission to Niger, as well as White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove's reported assertion that "Wilson's wife" authorized the trip. The RNC has accused Wilson of misrepresenting the Niger trip in its effort to explain and justify Rove's alleged involvement in leaking the identity of Wilson's wife, former clandestine CIA officer Valerie Plame. Specifically, according to the RNC talking point, Rove told Time magazine writer Matthew Cooper that "Wilson's wife," who worked at the CIA, had authorized Wilson's trip because Rove was trying to prevent Cooper from writing inaccurately that Cheney had sent Wilson on the mission. As the RNC alleged: "The bottom line is Karl Rove was discouraging a reporter from writing a false story based on a false premise and the Democrats are engaging in blatant partisan political attacks."

In fact, both of the claims underpinning the RNC's defense of Rove are false: Wilson never claimed he was sent to Niger at Cheney's request, and it was the CIA's Directorate of Operations, Counterproliferation Division (CPD), that authorized the trip, not Plame.

The RNC talking point: Wilson said he was sent to Niger at Cheney's behest

In order to defend Rove's mention of "Wilson's wife" to Cooper, the RNC sought to demonstrate that Rove had reason to believe that Cooper would falsely report that Cheney sent Wilson on the Niger trip, and that Rove needed to set the record straight by telling Cooper that Plame had actually authorized the trip, as Rove's lawyer has claimed. In an attempt to suggest that public statements made by Wilson had led Cooper to believe that Cheney authorized the trip, the RNC misrepresented a July 6, 2003, op-ed by Wilson in The New York Times and distorted a remark from Wilson in an August 3, 2003, interview on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer -- made after Rove discussed Plame with Cooper and therefore could not have been a basis for Rove's purported concern -- to assert that "Wilson falsely claimed that it was Vice President Cheney who sent him to Niger."

The RNC cited Wilson's Times op-ed as evidence that he claimed Cheney sent him to Niger. But the op-ed actually noted that it was "agency officials" from the CIA who "asked if I would travel to Niger" to answer questions Cheney's office had about a particular intelligence report:

In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake -- a form of lightly processed ore -- by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990's. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office.

The RNC then distorted Wilson's appearance on CNN's Late Edition by excluding a crucial portion of his remarks in which he noted that "it's absolutely true" that Cheney was unaware that Wilson was traveling to Niger and reiterated that the "CIA, at the operational level, made a determination" to send Wilson to answer a "serious question" posed by Cheney's office.

Additionally, Rove's conversation with Cooper took place on July 11, 2003 -- more than three weeks before Wilson's CNN appearance -- so it is chronologically impossible for Rove to have been refuting a statement that Wilson hadn't made yet, as Salon.com has pointed out.

From the RNC talking points:

Joe Wilson: "What They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby's Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ..." (CNN's "Late Edition," 8/3/03)

From the August 3, 2003, edition of CNN's Late Edition:

WILSON: Well, look, it's absolutely true that neither the vice president nor Dr. [then-national security adviser Condoleezza] Rice nor even [then-CIA Director] George Tenet knew that I was traveling to Niger.

What they did, what the office of the vice president did, and, in fact, I believe now from Mr. Libby's statement, it was probably the vice president himself --

BLITZER: [I. Lewis] "Scooter" Libby is the chief of staff for the vice president.

WILSON: Scooter Libby. They asked essentially that we follow up on this report -- that the agency follow up on the report. So it was a question that went to the CIA briefer from the Office of the Vice President. The CIA, at the operational level, made a determination that the best way to answer this serious question was to send somebody out there who knew something about both the uranium business and those Niger officials that were in office at the time these reported documents were executed...

READ THE REST


So, that was NOT Rove's purpose in telling Cooper about the wife.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:22 pm
Tico, I don't know about his qualifications. He was evidently qualified enough that those who made the decision -- a group which does NOT include Valerie Plame -- decided to send him.
0 Replies
 
Synonymph
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:35 pm
Brand X wrote:
This puts a different light on Novak's claim, I was referring to Sanford's statements on CNN.

These statements?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:40 pm
sozobe wrote:
Tico, I don't know about his qualifications. He was evidently qualified enough that those who made the decision -- a group which does NOT include Valerie Plame -- decided to send him.


i posted this a gazillion pages back, but here it is again for any that missed it;

Quote:
Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, IV

Ambassador Wilson served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council from June 1997 until July 1998. In that capacity he was responsible for the coordination of U.S. policy to the 48 countries of sub-Saharan Africa, He was one of the principal architecs of President Clinton's historic trip to Africa in March 1998.

Ambassador Wilson was the Political Advisor to the Commander-in-Chief of United States Armed Forces, Europe, 1995-1997. He served as the U.S. Ambassador to the Gabonese Republic and to the Democratic Republic of Sao Tome and Principe from 1992 to 1995. From 1998 to 1991, Ambassador Wilson served in Baghdad, Iraq as Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy. During ''Desert Shield'' he was the acting Ambassador and was responsible for the negotiations that resulted in the release of several hundred American hostages. He was the last official American to meet with Saddam Hussein before the launching of ''Desert Storm.''

Ambassador Wilson was a member of the U.S. Diplomatic Service from 1976 until 1998. His early assignments included Niamey, Niger, 1976-1978 ; Lome, Togo, 1978-79; the State Department Brueau of African Affairs, 1979-1981; and Pretoria, South Africa, 1981-1982.
In 1982, he was appointed Deputy Chief of Mission in Bujumbura, Burundi. In 1985-1986, he served in the offices of Senator Albert Gore and the House Majority Whip, Representative Thomas Foley, as an American Political Science Association Congressional Fellow. He was Deputy Chief of Mission in Brazzaville, Congo, 1986-88, prior to his assignment to Baghdad.


cpsag.com/our_team/wilson

in every job and industry i've ever worked in, there relationships known as "contacts". that means that you are aquainted with or friends with a person with whom you exchange information or gossip that you do not share with others less known or trusted by you.

i have no reason to believe that it's any different in world affairs.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:47 pm
oh, and by the way. if i had read his resume, or even knew of him from the cia people that are always posted in american embassies, i probably would have mentioned his name for the trip to niger as well.

but since i don't work for the cia, i didn't have an opportunity to do so. even less the ability to actually give him the assignment.

therefore, if a cia person specializing in wmd and prolifertation issues had no business mentioning wilson for the job, who do we suppose would be a credible referral ?

karl rove ? ken mehlman ? ralph reed ? how about sean hannity ? any of those people more qualified or less partisan enough to recommend wilson ?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:49 pm
DTOM, you beat me to it, I was searching for some info on Wilson and came across this to go along with yours.

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Joseph_Wilson

1976-1978: General Services Officer, U.S Embassy, Niger
1978-1979: Administrative Officer, U.S. Embassy, Togo
1979-1981: Administrative Officer, State Department
1981-1982: Administrative Officer, U.S. Embassy, South Africa
1982-1985: Deputy Chief of Mission, U.S. Embassy, Burundi
1985-1986: Congressional Fellow, offices of Sen. Al Gore and Rep. Tom Foley
1986-1988: Deputy Chief of Mission, U.S. Embassy, Republic of the Congo
1988-1991: Deputy Chief of Mission, U.S. Embassy, Iraq
1992-1995: Ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe (concurrently)
1995-1997: Political Adviser to Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Armed Forces Europe
1997-1998: Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs
0 Replies
 
pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:51 pm
Tico:

People came to Novak about a story that was quite useful to smear Wilson for his at that time a op-ed piece denouncing the Bush administration for it's lack of candour and basically misleading information about yellow cake being sought from Niger, a pivotal point in the Bush pro-war propaganda and State of the Union speech. So regardless of whoever leaked it at first we know that Rove was involved in conversations with Novak, one of his favourite past time with Novak for which Bush senior fired him. Because being the mischievous operator he is, he comes to the conclusion that maybe in fact Wilson's wife was no more an a current covert CIA agent. The more the better, let's out her as still a CIA covert agent, for which is all too happy once again to serve as a mouthpiece for his favourite guys. Whether it was Rove who gave him the leak or not originally is irrelevant. He was still the eye and ears of Bush and can only but have a pivotal role in the matter.

So here we have it. Rove is playing a balancing act, squirting quite close to the letter of the law. In his orchestrated leak, Rove attacks the Wilson family making quite sure that if Plame wasn't then a covert operative (a good way to gain promotions ultimately), she sure would never be again.

The legality of the matter is only but one of the angles to look into the story. The Bush administration sent a clear message. Don't mess with us or we will destroy you and your family irregardless of the merit of the facts you might present the nation. This isn't your show. This is King George's show. End of story.

Basically the Bush administration is damned either way. They tried to get away with a major misrepresentation: Saddam had a viable nuclear program. When denounced by Wilson about the yellow cake, they retaliated and tried to shot their own messenger. Today they are faced with their own duplicity and ethics. When Rove recently flew with the president, the stink wasn't in the head (loo) it was in the air wherever Bush and Rove stood.

All the other current attacks are just a lame spin to avoid being accountable.
0 Replies
 
pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:01 pm
Let's not play the game of the right here about Wilson's credential,

The CIA send him. Not Plame. He was a career diplomat with credentials with both the republicans and the democrats. He literally saved lives during Desert Storm as acting ambassador to Iraq and for which Bush senior thanked him profusely.

He went to Niger pro bono save his travelling expenses. The accuracy of his report still stands to this day, was confirmed by the ambassador to Niger and quite a sleight of other people.

The only bad guy(s) standing are those who organized the smear campaign against him and they just want to avoid the price of their derelict conduct be it criminal or political (or both).
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:16 pm
It should be a "federal" crime (and whatever penalties that might entail) and political poison to the extent this administration is not good for the US or our allies.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:19 pm
pngirouard wrote:
Let's not play the game of the right here about Wilson's credential,

The CIA send him. Not Plame. He was a career diplomat with credentials with both the republicans and the democrats. He literally saved lives during Desert Storm as acting ambassador to Iraq and for which Bush senior thanked him profusely.

He went to Niger pro bono save his travelling expenses. The accuracy of his report still stands to this day, was confirmed by the ambassador to Niger and quite a sleight of other people.

The only bad guy(s) standing are those who organized the smear campaign against him and they just want to avoid the price of their derelict conduct be it criminal or political (or both).


i agree. i don't plan to post his bio again or defend his record. it speaks for itself.

so does rove's. always sneakin' around just out of sight, pullin' strings.

as far as i'm concerned, any guy that goes after another man's wife or family in business is a pussy.

rove and his toadies seem to make a habit of it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:26 pm
DTOM, What is more repugnant is the fact that these guys didn't serve in our military (one went AWOL) or made any sacrifice for America's good, and they have the metigated gall to reveal a CIA working undercover.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:27 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Wilson was qualified.


What were his qualifications to lead an investigation? Did he have any background in conducting such investigations? Any prior history of doing that prior to his wife suggesting his name? He drank tea and met with some folks at the embassy ... that was his investigation?. He's not an investigator.


Wilson had done similar trip in 1999 which was part of why the CIA decided to use him. He didn't just talk to people at the embassy. His conversations at the embassy weren't part of the investigation. He talked to former govt officials in Niger. That was the investigation the CIA tasked him with, to talk to officials that had been in the govt. The embassy in Niger didn't want him talking to present officials. The embassy's own investigation found the same thing Wilson did. Deputy Commander of the European Command, Major General Fulford also found the same thing in his investigation. All of that is in the report to Congress.

If a group is asked for suggestions of people to do a job and one person from those suggestions is chosen, did the person that make that suggestion really make a substantive contribution to choosing the person?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:31 pm
On Rove's draft deferment. http://www.talkleft.com/new_archives/007928.html
0 Replies
 
pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:34 pm
Let's correct one fact and one so misinterpreted about Bush's time in the military. He didn't go awol.

He knew it would bad for his reputation. But what he did was probably worse.

He enrolled in the National guard and became at great expense a pilot. A pilot usually treasures his licence to fly. Not Bush and for good reason. If ever he might be called despite of being holed in the national guard at the time, he would be exposed to Vietnam. Instead of going awol he skipped his medical and by doing so lost both his right to fly and ever being called in active combat duty.

He always said though that he would have answered the call for Vietnam. Another Bush lie one of so may. I wonder if the Guinness Book has a section for pathological liars. I would certainly nominate him.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 01:37 pm
One more thing: Karl Rove could have used his telephone to find out whether releasing the name of a CIA agent or husband's spouse would have compromised that agent. He didn't do that. Incompetence is one excuse, the other is (or both) a universal threat against Wilson for speaking out against the Iraq war, and to warn all others to keep their mouth's shut.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Karl Rove E-mails - Discussion by Diest TKO
Rove: McCain went 'too far' in ads - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Sheryl Crow Battles Karl Rove at D.C. Press Dinner - Discussion by BumbleBeeBoogie
Texas attorney fired for Rove article comments - Discussion by BumbleBeeBoogie
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 03/19/2025 at 12:24:09